North Carolina Emission Laws Change

[osidak]

Pulled this from the local news Paper website. Won't really affect me as my 911 becomes excempt this year and my 00 Jetta isn't subject to emissions because it is a diesel. My Wifes 03 Outback will be tested but that expected.

Need to get an ODBII tool for the Outback so I can check and clear codes before it is tested.


>>North Carolina is changing how it does emission inspections by shifting to a computer based system which will feed the results directly to the state.

DMV inspectors test inspection stations by bringing in a car that is designed to fail to see if they can get a sticker anyway.

The old emissions inspection meant putting a probe in the exhaust pipe. The new tests involve plugging into the car's on board diagnostic computer.

“There's a computer in the newer cars, 1996 and newer, that tracks the car through what's called a drive cycle from startup through highway speeds idling in town driving through shutoff,” said Dave Yelverton, the Car Guy. “This machine goes in and reads that information.”

With the new computer sampling, technician Ty Collier said the emissions data is collected from the computer and sent straight to the state making it harder to cheat.

“People have come in with a check engine light,” said Collier. “You can't fool the machine. It's going to pick it up.”

In order to get the new system lawmakers agreed that in three years the state won't do emissions tests on models built before 1996. That means that older models, which pollute more on average but are driven less, won’t be tested at all.

At the same time, the state is expanding the number of counties required to do emissions testing<<

[Tim Walsh]

uh oh sounds like I need to pick up another early P-car for a daily driver

[osidak]

Tim -- Early has become 1995. think what you could do to a 993 when you don't have to worry about emissions. Ok scratch that stick a highly tweaked 993 engine in a early car and have some fun

[Tim Walsh]

hehee exactly. I'm more fond of the early screamers though. A 2.5 Short stroke just really appeals to me.

[osidak]

I was thinking early car stripped to the lowest weight possible and then shove a 3.8 liter into her. That would be fun. That 2.5 would sound really nice but that 3.8 is no slouch and she would flat out move.

[wcballance]

This is very interesting news. I found an article titled Tailpipe testing to end in the Charlotte Observer. It sheds a little more light on this topic. I'm searching out more info to see if some modifications to my car are in order soon. Sounds like I may have to wait until 2006, but I'm digging and hoping I can do something sooner.

[wcballance]

OK.... It looks like I will have to wait until 2006 before I'm exempt from testing. Check this Schedule to get a timetable for North Carolina's new emissions program. It offers a great summary.

[KilnRed83SC]

Just my luck, Mecklenburg still gets tailpipe thru 2006 while the new counties go ODB only...

[barlowdo]

I heard that some women could not get her new Toyota to pass because it was not yet in the State computer data bank or something along these lines. So to get it to pass she had to take it to the dealer and $150.00 later it passed.

Figures my Jeep is a '96 and I sold the 86 Jeep because it would not pass. Oh well.

[Jim Richards]

Maybe I'll move to North Carolina.

[Oldporsche]

I think that it would be easier to cheat on this type of system.

If the on board diagnostics are used, whose to say they are sampling the correct thing? They may be sampling the output of a preburned chip that is using a timing sequence to put the output to the diagnostic pins.

I can see it now. The car is running so rich that the technician is grabbing a gas mask to read the output and the oxygen sensor pin is showing that the motor is within range.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[redducati750]

it would be real easy to cheat...... all you do is find a shady gas station....and there are alot of them i know of three in Chapel Hill alone, whos to say what car is producing what emmisions, hook car A up and say its car B DMV wont know the differnece and all you need to do is slip the gas station employee the standard 20 bucks.

[osidak]

OBDII gives identification numbers when you scan the car. So I would imagine the States computers would keep track of how often it sees a particular number. If it sees it twice I would also assume to see if that number recently failed an inspection.

Where I see the ability to cheat would come from problems that will not trigger a cel immediately.

Lets say your EGR was disabled. The EGR is not active in all instances. If a person had a scan tool they could clear any fault codes and then drive into to be checked. As long as the fault code does not reappear very quickly then you would pass.

The solution to this cheat is a large database that has all the variable parameters that the different cars use and match against that database.

I think it will be harder to cheat than some of you guys think.

[osidak]

The other way to prevent cheaters from disabling certain components would be to query each component.

I use Vag-Com (www.ross-tech.com) on my Volkswagen to help me trouble shoot problems. There is a test mode that will allow me to test just about anything I want. I can activate the EGR, cycle the speedometer through it's full range even lock and unlock the doors.

As part of the emissions test the machine could go out and activate each and every emissions component. If the response is not as expected then the car fails.

[tsuter]

Gad zooks, a "sniffer" is safe enough for those monkeys to operate but I can just see them hooking a VAG-COM onto my modified ECM and "accidently" ending up in Recode or Adaptation and my vehicle promptly goes into Limp Mode!
I'll have to make sure I carry my laptop to any inspection station.

Wait a minute, thats why I soldered on a socket for the factory chip!! I'll just stick it back in before I go!

[osidak]

To my knowledge no Scan Tool can reprogram the ECU at this time. You can recode and that could cause a no start but I doubt the emission testers will have that ability. It wouldn't make sense. Besides many of the adaptations that could cause a no start require a logon that is given by the manufacture or the internet if you know where to look.

I wouldn't worry about a shop killing your car during an emissions test.

[tsuter]

My board in my VW NB is dual socketed. One for the custom GIAC chip from Garrett and one for the factory chip - currently empty. Right - Vag- Com can't change the chip. I keep the factory chip in the glove box just in case. I believe APR has software to allow you to dynamically switch from among up to three programs on the chip. They would of course be one for you, one for inspection, and one for the kids when you let them use the car.
My Harley Davidson software allows you to directly update the ECM EPROM. There are nine tables and you can go at all of them with even 3-D analysis. Good stuff!!

Not for my Porsche - got to keep it simple!

[Don Wohlfarth]

The tail pipe test is a 2 gas test for CO and HC. The dyno test is a 3 gas test, CO, HC , and NO (nitrous oxide).
The Feds made Virginia go to the later test because of polluted areas around DC (Northern Virginia) 3 or 4 years ago. They threaten to withold highway funds.
If NC is using the same type of equipment it costs the gas stations about 25K to install it.
Osidak is right, harder to fool the computer than you think. In VA the test is good for 2 years and all the stations are tied into the DMV.
The way VA deals with cheating is a modest fine the first time ~1K but they suspend the station from inspections for a week or 10 days, the 2nd time they get caught it starts getting serious money and suspension for 30 days, 3rd time more money and 90 days, and then there's no more chances.
One of the inspectors told me that the program is pretty good. You type in the VIN number and the computer pulls the specs, you run the test, and it has to fall within certain guidelines for that particular car. There's no way you could type in a 10 yr old car and hook up the machine to a new Ford or Chevy as the specs would kick it out. If you had a SC with a stock 3.6 it would fail as it would burn too clean.

[911SC Pilot]

We already have that standard emissions testing here in Nevada. We have had it now for 2 years. And yes, I had a check engine lite on my wifes car, and it failed,(bad cam senser).

[osidak]

don, in NC they will only be testing cars that OBDII so that limits them to 1996 or newer. If you rolled into an inspection with a SC/3.6 conversion you wouldn't get smogged at all.