Fred Schwab

[Doug Zielke]

To Quote him (on the Speed Sebring broadcast):

"Racing to Porsche, is like Peanut Butter and Jelly are to a sandwich."

What an idiot!

[widebody911]

I don't get it - why is he an idiot?

[YTNUKLR]

It contradicts what Porsche has been doing. If Porsche really believed that, they would be doing different things. It makes me sad. I guess all good things must come to an end eventually. I don't even think that you can buy a sports car now as well made as a 911 of 14-38 years ago. Porsche...

[Randy Webb]

As Enzo once said: "Porsche races to sell cars, I sell cars to race."

[Rob McKibbon]

Agreed. Did you guys read that thread that Jack posted a while back; it was all about the history of Porsche and their family by Bruce Anderson. What an excellent article! Titled "50 years of Porsches". Anyway the relevance is that Porsche is lucky to have survived a 2nd Generation as a successful business, as that is rare; but the 3rd generation 'aint doing so good.
Considering technology changes in my industry (construction engineering) over the past 35 years...... wow, you'd figure Porsche would have come alot further, that's for sure.
The good thing is we get to enjoy our older Pcars, mines a '74 and I'm often asked, "is it brand new?" and perform, hey, it performs the same way.
my 2 cents

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Rob McKibbon
........Anyway the relevance is that Porsche is lucky to have survived a 2nd Generation as a successful business, as that is rare; but the 3rd generation 'aint doing so good.
Considering technology changes in my industry (construction engineering) over the past 35 years...... wow, you'd figure Porsche would have come alot further, that's for sure.......

Interesting comments.

My understanding is: Porsche was going to replace the 911 years ago, but there were cries of protest among the faithful. So they added other models, but there were issues with those (924,944, and 928- is this the second generation period you refer to?), and finally they added the Boxster, which has been ok for them. Now, Porsche is worried about their survival if they maintain the lopsided sports cars only approach, so they curtail racing to free up funds to develop a more balanced business, in this case adding a sport utility line.

From a technical standpoint, I see Porsche selling their engineering prowess in consultancies, and the new product appears to be fully contemporary. They DID hire Toyota to help them increase production efficiency, but they are now, to the best of my knowledge, up to speed in that department.

So, while I admit there are other points of view about their business strategy, it appears to be defensible, and really, I can see the point about the need for long term sales stability as being critical for the companies survival. Whether they follow through effectively remains to be seen.

But- I'm curious about the trouble you refer to, because, from my angle, they:

Have a great product in the new "911" and all it's varients,
Have a good "entry" model in the base Boxster
Have a hedge model in the Cayenne (although, if I were in the market, I would look seriously at the Toureg first, which is a bad sign!)
and they have the best profit per unit in the industry.

So, where do you see the issue? (Presuming they follow through with the return to racing promise!)

[emcon5]

Originally posted by lateapex911
My understanding is: Porsche was going to replace the 911 years ago, but there were cries of protest among the faithful.

This is only partially correct. The 928 was the planned replacement for the 911, and I am certain there were howls of protest, but I doubt that had anything to do with the reversal of this decision.

The reversal came from sales. The old sports car sold better than the fat Grand Touring car that was to replace it. The funny thing is, over time the old sports car has turned into a fat GT car. A very fast GT car, but still a GT car.

I think Doug's (and my) problem with the current management is they continue to try and cash in on their racing heritage, while showing only minimal interest in continuing that heritage.

Tom

[lateapex911]

AH, true- the cries of protest are always listened to when they are accompanied by piles of cash...aka-sales.

But weren't those sales very "fashion" related? The go-go eighties stockbroker's favorite symbol of success was a 911, right? Great for sales, but dangerous to buld a solid sales foundation on....


I agree that I wish Porsche would get out there and race- wouldn't it be great to see Porsche duking it out with Audi, and Bentley!?

Trouble is, from their point of view, if they DO go racing, they have to go ALL the way, because losing to EITHER of those would be humiliating, considering Porsches racing heritage.

Because of that, I would prefer they get their house in order, THEN go racing and do it RIGHT.

Whether they follow through remains to be seen, and I can see the frustration that we're just being fed lies!

[aseem]

I know there are a lot of strong opinions on the strategy at Porsche, the new 911 (or i should say 996), the boxter, the Cayenne an not least their lack of racing effort.

Personally, I must agree with the racing bit, but after having the pleasure of measuring the Cayenne up close, I must say its an imressive piece of SUV, and its way ahead of the Touareg in terms of power and ride performance. Maybe we will see the Cayenne in the Paris-Dakar rally next year or the year after.

My point is; I think it is correct of Porshe to think of sales and revenue. Remember Porsche is the ONLY surviving INDEPENDENT sports car manufacturer left in the world. OK so Ferrari sell cars to go race, and they race well, but the company went bust and was bought by FIAT.
Aston Martin is owned by Ford, as is Jaguar, Lamborghini is owned by Audi, and the list contuinues.

I rather see Porsche survive as an independen sports car maker, than see Ford switches and other parts in the beloved Porsche (as you find in Aston Martin for instance) For this, I can tolerate a few models a litle bit out of the Sports car segment.

[masraum]

Porsche is the ONLY surviving INDEPENDENT sports car manufacturer left in the world

Excellent point!!

Also, Doesn't Porsche dominate GT class in many of the big leagues, Le Mans, ALMS, Grand Am...?

Since Porsche races thier cars to prove the quality of the car, aren't they doing that??

Isn't one of the things the Porsche stands for excellent engineering? If that's the case, while the Cayenne may not be a lightweight sports car, doesn't it have the same quality engineering that goes into the other Porsche Products.

Yes, the once light nimble sports car is now heavy and more of a GT car, but compared to the other contemporary sports cars isn't it still one of the closest (to it's original heritage) and best of the breed? You can't compare the 996 to the 3.2L Carrera any more than you can compare the 3.2L Carrera to a 67 S or a 67S to a 55 356? Things change. Sure you can say there is the miata, which is probably more like the 356 than anything else, but you must see how ridiculous that is too.

Jeez, things change, There are things about the old sports cars of the 50's and 60's that the new cars can't touch, but that goes both ways.

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by emcon5

I think Doug's (and my) problem with the current management is they continue to try and cash in on their racing heritage, while showing only minimal interest in continuing that heritage.

Tom

Exactly right, Tom.
I have nothing against the Cayenne or any other "modern" Porsche. I just want to see the company return to racing at the highest level. Why should Audi have all the fun with their R8?

[aseem]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
Exactly right, Tom.
I have nothing against the Cayenne or any other "modern" Porsche. I just want to see the company return to racing at the highest level. Why should Audi have all the fun with their R8?

I do agree with that. Nothing would warm my heart more than to see Porsche at the top in Le Mans. But I don't want this if the price is bankrupcy or near so. If I'm not mistaken, Porsche had real economic problems in the early nineties, and new leadership was overdue.

I want a healthy Independent Porsche, superior sportscars, and domination on the race track. Is this too much to ask?

[MrKJBlue]

"Racing to Porsche, is like Peanut Butter and Jelly are to a sandwich."

should read

"Racing to A Porsche, is like Peanut Butter and Jelly are to a sandwich."

My point is; I think it is correct of Porshe to think of sales and revenue. Remember Porsche is the ONLY surviving INDEPENDENT sports car manufacturer left in the world.

Theres plenty left TVR Marcos Morgan Zonda Westfield.... All small and specialised and most off them racing on small budjets.

Porsche have the money to race and they are now choosing to spend it else where.
"we" know all about porsches racing heritage but how long before buyers of new 996 will want to see some evidence of the great Porsche mark.

[Zeke]

Factor the V10 in the GT with the desire/intention of CART to run V10s in 2005 with the cozyness between CART and F1 (V10) and you might find a hint of the future of Porsche in racing. They can't afford to get slaughtered in F1, but they could come crawling in the back door.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Zeke
Factor the V10 in the GT with the desire/intention of CART to run V10s in 2005 with the cozyness between CART and F1 (V10) and you might find a hint of the future of Porsche in racing. They can't afford to get slaughtered in F1, but they could come crawling in the back door.

Yes, F1 isn't the place for the meek...and while Porsche isn't meek, they would have to dig pretty deep to make a viable attempt at F1. Look at the Ford (Jaguar) effort as an indication of how hard it is to be successful.

Now CART, on the other hand, is a pretty open target right now...I can see how it would be pretty tempting for a manufacturer to jump in. The marketing value of CART is in question, though, and only time will tell if it can regain it's luster.

I, for one, think it can. It will take 2 years, though.

I wonder if Porsche will remember it's experience with the "Indy" project.......

Also, I wonder if there is a place for the new GT to race??? That would be cool to see!

[Randy Webb]

Well, the issue is that Porsche is no longer a -- much less the -- ONLY surviving INDEPENDENT sports car manufacturer left in the world. It is now just another car maker -- albeit a small one. It's too bad, but that's the situation. The Cayenne kills the pretense to being solely a sports car maker.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Randy Webb
Well, the issue is that Porsche is no longer a -- much less the -- ONLY surviving INDEPENDENT sports car manufacturer left in the world. It is now just another car maker -- albeit a small one. It's too bad, but that's the situation. The Cayenne kills the pretense to being solely a sports car maker.

Hey, hey, hey now. They make a Sport utility vehicle and it's a car, so it's a Sports Car.

[david914]

I have to agree. Fred Schwab IS an idiot. And an arrogant one at that. I don't remember the exact issue, but in the letters section of a Panorama, a member wrote in saying that he met Schwab at a Parade. He went on to say that he mentioned to Schwab that he owned a 914-6 and a 911. Schwab's response was "I'm in the business of selling new cars, not old ones". Technically, that may have been a true statement, but I'm not sure I could have kept my composure after a remark like that. Schwab's comment was not only rude and insensitive, but indicative of his lack of respect for the marque and what has made Porsche the icon that it is. He, like so many corporate executives, seems to have one passion: make as much money as possible, regardless of who or what gets in the way. There, I'm off my soapbox (for now)

[pwd72s]

Perhaps Porsche should consider a NASCAR entry? After all, that's the racing fan base of 2003. (tongue in cheek...partially.) Let's face it guys, Schwab is a bean counter. No less, but no more...he'll market the brand name any way he can, as long as it produces sales.

[jpachard]

My favourite 'Fred Schwab" moment was at the Rennsport Reunion at Limerock a few years back. When they announced he was in one of the cars in a parade lap, alot of people booed and hissed as the car passed,,, I mean ALOT of people...

James