Project Avocado - 1986 Moss Green 911 Rebuild

[jonathant]

If/when I need to replace my windshield I intend to replace with one of these: https://www.heatedwindscreen.com/acatalog/porsche-911-heated-clear-windscreen.html

I'm liking the idea of a fog-free windscreen even when the hvac is off (or acting up).

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by jonathant

If/when I need to replace my windshield I intend to replace with one of these: https://www.heatedwindscreen.com/acatalog/porsche-911-heated-clear-windscreen.html

I'm liking the idea of a fog-free windscreen even when the hvac is off (or acting up).

That's cool! Didn't know it was a thing.

I placed a very random order at Summit last night. More wiring supplies, IAT sensor, fueling supplies, and some vacuum hose. All in all, it should be most of what I need to get the car started sometime in the next few weeks.

Speaking of startup, one of the things I have yet to purchase is oil. I've read several threads and everyone has their own thoughts and there doesn't seem to be one suggested path. The exception is what's in Wayne's book, where he recommends using conventional 20w-50. Is that 20 year old wisdom still prevalent today?

The only minor update I have today in terms of pics, is that I installed a door panel! I probably shouldn't be surprised but after all the elbow grease that's been put into cleaning this interior, it looks amazing. I love the tan/black contrast.

[chrisbalich]

Looking good, Gabe.

Those armrests have wire skeletons and can be [carefully] bent/massaged back straight.
I can make no promises that they'll retain that shape if used as intended, but I was able to bend mine straight...after I removed them from the car. I don't remember if I still have them or if they've been sold.

[hheine]

Awesome thread Gabe, looking forward to the finished project!

[Mossgreen3.2]

Keep it up Gabe!! Tons of us pulling for you and cheering you on!

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Looking good, Gabe.

Those armrests have wire skeletons and can be [carefully] bent/massaged back straight.
I can make no promises that they'll retain that shape if used as intended, but I was able to bend mine straight...after I removed them from the car. I don't remember if I still have them or if they've been sold.

Ugh, I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out! Once the car is running/driving I'll be able to work out some of these details.

Originally Posted by hheine

Awesome thread Gabe, looking forward to the finished project!

Thanks! You and me both.

Originally Posted by Mossgreen3.2

Keep it up Gabe!! Tons of us pulling for you and cheering you on!

What a beauty! Thanks for posting some inspiration.

[Gabe.]

Oh man, what a marathon weekend. My body almost feels like I'm hungover today, probably because I had my head bent over a table for 15+ hours between Saturday and Sunday.

Worth it.

I went from a bare wiring harness to a *nearly* completed loom over the weekend.

Saturday was spent doing the sensor harness: TPS, IAT, 2xCrank sensors, Cam sensor, Cylinder Head temp sensor. It gave me a good opportunity to learn how to do this without the complexity of the multiple junctions the ignition/injection harness needs. ie: sleeve the harness prior to crimping any pins.

Sunday was spent doing the Ignition/Injection harness: 12x Bosch ignition coil connectors, 6x EV1 injector connectors, Signal ground, Power ground.

I used adhesive lined heatshrink over uninsulated crimps where there were junctions from one wire to multiple and had wire straight from the ecu to the connector pins where possible.

Running the twin plug harness took a lot of thought. There are 6 ignition signal wires running from the ECU that are then split into two signals for the top/bottom ignition coil on each cylinder. There are also two sets of power wires running from the relay box, one for the top ignition coils, one for the bottom. Each ignition coil has 4 pins; power, signal ground, ecu signal, power ground. The signal ground went from 6 wires to 1 ring terminal on the rear most fan shroud bolt, the power wires went from 6 to 1x 12 gauge wire to the chassis ground by the front of the transmission.

We'll see how that all works!

What's left on wiring:

• Wire up the Bussman Relay/Fuse block
• Run power/ground to/from the battery (10 gauge)
• Run wire from the ignition switch
• Rewire fuel pump
• Ordered 2 extra fuel injector connectors and extra single pin weather pack for Clewett cam sensor signal ground
• Large heat shrink for various harness junctions
• Clear Heatshrink for Labeling

I'll work through that list with an eye on getting the car started over next weekend.



So another thing I've had my mind on is break-in and engine oil, which is an endless debate on the Pelican forums. I'm planning to follow the guide in Wayne's book, but damn is that a lot of expensive oil... Here's my tentative plan:

• Driven BR30 for first 20 minute cam break in, drain
• Driven BR 15w50 for first round of drives/leaks, drain
• Driven BR 15w50 for 500 miles, drain
• Driven GP-1 20w-50 or Driven DT50? Thoughts?

Spending $300-$400 on oil over the first thousand miles seems pretty crazy but after spending this much money on an engine rebuild, seems like reasonable insurance. Is using Driven oil from the beginning a good plan rather than mixing/matching something less expensive?

Am I overthinking this? Thoughts on changing the oil after the first 15-20 miles vs 300-500? When is the best point in time to switch from the BR50 to either GP-1 or DT50?

I'm going to take the engine out today to modify and attach all the engine tins, swap from the GSF 36-1 pulley back to stock (planning to run the motronic sensors with the MS3 Pro), check the harness fitment, and then put it back into the car for the final install before startup...



My first actual project on Saturday was replacing broken bosch plugs with new weatherpack on the two motronic crank sensors:



Then I finished up the sensor harness. I wouldn't recommend doing this project without an automatic wire stripper. $20 and saved hours of time and frustration. I also have a weatherpack and barrel connector crimper.



Reinstalled the harness to rough cut the wires to length, plus create a game plan for the two sets of grounds per ignition plug.



Grounds added:



Passenger side bank of ignition coil connectors. Each connector has 4 pins, 12 ignition coil connectors total means 48 crimps! If you forget to put the boot on first, the seals on second, and then the crimp, you may need to redo some things or lube the boots... Ask me how I know.



Injector harness nearly complete. Needed to order two more EV1 connectors. The extra ones I had used a different crimp style than the new ones I bought.



I took a break for dinner last night and then did the last six ignition coils and cam sensor plug in the comfort of my living room rather than standing in the garage:



This whole wiring harness looks like an absolute mess of wires until you start to separate and put loom on them. Once you start doing that it starts to take shape. This was one of the most rewarding and mentally consuming automotive projects I've ever done (although this whole thing seems to feel that way). Thanks to chrisbalich for the additional knowledge and motivation on this.

I really hope this works

[ADDvanced]

1. Aren't you selling this car? I saw you're trying to ditch it to get a different shell on the classifieds?

2. That seems insane to me to buy expensive oil for a break in. I would get the CHEAPEST ****tiest 20w50 from Oreillys for such a task. Think of it this way: Expensive oil is NOT going to make a difference on your engine blowing up or not. For a break in, all it needs to do is be there and get dirty and drained out. Once you drain it out, I will probably run Valvoline VR1 since it's supposedly good on motorcycles and other aircooled engines where high temps can break it down. Pretty sure VR1 has a lot of zinc and other anti wear additives as well. I'm no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I think expensive oil for a break in is a giant waste of money.

[chrisbalich]

Gabe, your harness looks better than mine. :/

And I ran Rotella dino 15-40 for my cam break-in. It's coming out in the next week for another round of Rotella dino 15-40 for tuning and initial miles. I figure $45 for 2.5 gallons of oil that isn't going to last a month is money well spent that I don't have to feel bad about dumping.
Once my tune is sorted, I'll switch to 'proper' oil.

[paul_howey]

Man, this is inspiring to see what can be done in a home garage when you have the skills... Bravo!

I also work from home but still have been adjusting to the stay-at-home orders. I've been spending my free time in the garage lately and I really thought I was getting some stuff done on my projects until I stumbled across this thread lol...

Can't wait to see your 911 on the streets here in LA. The color is sick.

[$yncro]

Wow! You got some mad skills..I’m pretty stoked for you.
Great work!

[DaddyGlenn]

Originally Posted by Gabe.

{snip}... damn is that a lot of expensive oil... Here's my tentative plan:

• Driven BR30 for first 20 minute cam break in, drain
• Driven BR 15w50 for first round of drives/leaks, drain
• Driven BR 15w50 for 500 miles, drain
• Driven GP-1 20w-50 or Driven DT50? Thoughts?

Spending $300-$400 on oil over the first thousand miles seems pretty crazy but after spending this much money on an engine rebuild, seems like reasonable insurance. Is using Driven oil from the beginning a good plan rather than mixing/matching something less expensive?

Am I overthinking this? Thoughts on changing the oil after the first 15-20 miles vs 300-500? When is the best point in time to switch from the BR50 to either GP-1 or DT50?

... {snip}

I think you are right to invest in good oil for break in. The Driven oils are very high in zinc and other anti-wear agents that will get embedded in the metal as you break in the engine.

Granted, it is a different engine, but the advice I got for my 944 track car was to use the BR50 for cam break in and initial run, no more than a couple hours or 200 miles. Then shift to Driven XP4 for remaining engine break in with 500 mile oil change intervals. Once broken in, run Driven HR1 at 3,000 mile (or in my case 100 lap) intervals.

[ADDvanced]

You can get ZDDP additive for around $8 and most parts stores. I run it in my older cars, along w Rotella.

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

1. Aren't you selling this car? I saw you're trying to ditch it to get a different shell on the classifieds?

I kinda have a case of automotive ADD. In my head, I'm on a journey to build the ultimate 911, whatever that may be for me. In CA I do have to contend with smog unless you have a chassis that is 1975 or older and that has been weighing heavily on my mind lately. There is an abandoned/unfinished long hood project that I was/am interested in picking up so I posted a feeler for the avocado to see if I could realistically swap the two. At this point, I'm not sure what I want to do. I love everything about this car and doing all this work to get it this far is pretty exhausting. Idk why I'd consider immediately jumping into another project

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Gabe, your harness looks better than mine. :/

And I ran Rotella dino 15-40 for my cam break-in. It's coming out in the next week for another round of Rotella dino 15-40 for tuning and initial miles. I figure $45 for 2.5 gallons of oil that isn't going to last a month is money well spent that I don't have to feel bad about dumping.
Once my tune is sorted, I'll switch to 'proper' oil.

Haha, as long as the damn thing works, that's what's important to me. Making it look pretty just seemed like the right thing to do, although the Raychem DR25 sleeve makes it more difficult to add additional wires later. I'd consider adding IAC, oil pressure, oil temp, and fuel pressure so that the ECU can read/do things with that data.

Originally Posted by paul_howey

Man, this is inspiring to see what can be done in a home garage when you have the skills... Bravo!

I also work from home but still have been adjusting to the stay-at-home orders. I've been spending my free time in the garage lately and I really thought I was getting some stuff done on my projects until I stumbled across this thread lol...

Can't wait to see your 911 on the streets here in LA. The color is sick.

Haha! Any progress is good progress no matter how large or little it is. It agonizes me to have this car sitting in my garage and it being undrivable but I'm trying to do as much of it *right* as I can right now rather than needing to redo things later. Inevitably there will be updates to make along the way, but that's ok too.

Originally Posted by $yncro

Wow! You got some mad skills..I’m pretty stoked for you.
Great work!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

That seems insane to me to buy expensive oil for a break in. I would get the CHEAPEST ****tiest 20w50 from Oreillys for such a task. Think of it this way: Expensive oil is NOT going to make a difference on your engine blowing up or not. For a break in, all it needs to do is be there and get dirty and drained out. Once you drain it out, I will probably run Valvoline VR1 since it's supposedly good on motorcycles and other aircooled engines where high temps can break it down. Pretty sure VR1 has a lot of zinc and other anti wear additives as well. I'm no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I think expensive oil for a break in is a giant waste of money.

Originally Posted by DaddyGlenn

I think you are right to invest in good oil for break in. The Driven oils are very high in zinc and other anti-wear agents that will get embedded in the metal as you break in the engine.

Granted, it is a different engine, but the advice I got for my 944 track car was to use the BR50 for cam break in and initial run, no more than a couple hours or 200 miles. Then shift to Driven XP4 for remaining engine break in with 500 mile oil change intervals. Once broken in, run Driven HR1 at 3,000 mile (or in my case 100 lap) intervals.

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

You can get ZDDP additive for around $8 and most parts stores. I run it in my older cars, along w Rotella.

Thanks for your oil thoughts, everyone!

I ordered the Driven oil yesterday morning so I'm going down that path, even it if it's a bit more expensive. It came down to the fact that draining the entire oil system on a 911 is nearly impossible to do so there will be residual oil left over during each oil change. Having that all be the same brand/type from the beginning seems like a valuable insurance policy for a completely fresh build. You may be right that the initial 20 minute cam break in can be done with something super cheap, but to reduce my chances of messing something up, it was worth an additional $40 or so to get the right stuff.

I think I'm pretty good at finding deals and I ended up ordering the Driven oils from here: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/?ClearSuperMarket=true
They don't have the DT-50 but seem to have most of the BR, HR, XP, and GP-1.

The only thing I'm rethinking is that I should have gone with the GP-1 break in oil from the beginning rather than the BR30. Oh well, I'm sure it will be fine.

[ADDvanced]

Man, for as cool is cali is w car culture, they sure mess it all up w emissions. 75 or older? So technically my 77 would need to pass smog? Lol. That would never ever happen. Ever. Even when new, lol.

[Gabe.]

Lol, I know. It's a constant battle. They should really move back to the 25 year old rule. Most cars on the road that are daily driven are not classics.

Your 77 would have to pass smog with whatever requirements a 1977 911 had back in the day. My friend had a 1976 that didn't even come with cats from the factory, no idea what that would even look like bringing that to a smog shop out here.

[paul_howey]

Originally Posted by Gabe.

Haha! Any progress is good progress no matter how large or little it is. It agonizes me to have this car sitting in my garage and it being undrivable but I'm trying to do as much of it *right* as I can right now rather than needing to redo things later. Inevitably there will be updates to make along the way, but that's ok too.

Agreed! I will say the paint and body result you were able to achieve considering the starting point is extremely impressive. Not saying everything else isn't impressive (it really is) but that really got me as I wouldn't even know where to start with a project like that.

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Man, for as cool is cali is w car culture, they sure mess it all up w emissions. 75 or older? So technically my 77 would need to pass smog? Lol. That would never ever happen. Ever. Even when new, lol.

Originally Posted by Gabe.

Lol, I know. It's a constant battle. They should really move back to the 25 year old rule. Most cars on the road that are daily driven are not classics.

Your 77 would have to pass smog with whatever requirements a 1977 911 had back in the day. My friend had a 1976 that didn't even come with cats from the factory, no idea what that would even look like bringing that to a smog shop out here.

A quick note here; I would highly recommend looking into Historic or Collector car registration. Yes, 1976+ historic/collector cars are still required to pass smog (sniffer) but they are exempt from visual inspection. Visual is where most of us get held up because the cat is missing, emissions equipment has been removed or a different year emissions equipment is being used, etc. As long as you pass the sniffer test (which isn't difficult) you are good to go.

Personally, my 3.2 is just running a pre-muffler and factory emissions equipment so I just need to swap the cat back for inspection. Yes, it's annoying but I'm not moving from CA over it lol...

[Gabe.]

I had to look back at my pics this week to recall what I actually did. It seemed like a lot of small things getting checked off the list.

They were small things that were a big deal that could totally push off the first start though...

Those "small" items were the following:

• Cutting relief's in the lower valve cover for the #3 & #4 ignition coils.
• Figuring out if any of the three starter motors I have were operable.
• Modifying the driver front engine tin for the Clewett cam sensor and clearancing for both the ignition coil and heat exchanger tube.
• Modifying both side engine tins for the ignition coil plugs to fit through.
• and the threaded hole for my cylinder head temp sensor was too big.

The threaded hole for the cylinder head temp sensor was the biggest WTF I had experienced with this build. The twin-plug heads I put on the car were labeled 1-6 and I put them back into the spot they came out of. I never thought to look at the size of the sensor hole or to double-check them prior to installation. The sensor I have came out of the old heads and also fit on the #3 head on the other engine I have. From my research there were no other thread sizes used on these sensors and it didn't fit any of the bolts I had lying around. I had a feeling that someone had stripped out the hole in the past and then put a helicoil or timesert into it. The thread repair must have come out with the temp sensor because there was nothing in there when I got the heads. I took a gamble and ordered a m10x1.0 timesert once I found out that each thread size/pitch uses a specific standardized STI Tap for that thread size.

The timeserts arrived on Saturday and THEY FIT! Wildcard diverted.



I wasn't sure if the stock starter that came with the car would work so I bench tested it. It was spinning fine but the solenoid was sticky. I lubed it and it now works great. I have a lightweight high torque starter that I also bench-tested but the solenoid doesn't pop it out enough to meet the starter ring gear on the clutch. Not sure how I fix that?



Clearanced the lower valve cover for the #3 & #4 ignition coils:




I also did the following that required less modification and were seemingly regular things to do when reinstalling an engine:

• Swapped out my GSF 36-1 crank pulley for the stock one.
• Hooked up the fuel lines to the fuel tank and put 4 gallons of fuel in.
• Hooked up axles, throttle linkage, and clutch cable.
• Cleaned and painted the oil tank.
• Measured, cut, and built fuel lines and mounted AEM fuel pressure regulator.

Here's the engine done and ready to be installed into the car:



Fuel lines cut to length and installed:



Oil tank etch primed and painted. Not perfect but better than bare metal covered with grime.



Parts and oil arrived throughout the week, I'm still waiting on: fuel pressure gauge, fuel filter, engine pad, gear lube, large adhesive lined heatshrink for all junctions, and a few other odds and ends.

Three cases of oil for seemingly the first 500 miles... Might grab another case of the BR 15w-50 before moving to the GP-1 20w-50.



In the midst of this and since I was waiting on parts to arrive, I reorganized and cleaned the garage. I also cut off a portion of a shelf over where I put my table and ran a new LED light above it. Feels so much nicer in there!

Before:



After:



I'm really hoping that this week I'll be able to start it, break the cams in, get the glass installed, and be able to drive it. My birthday is coming up and it would be AMAZING to get behind the wheel of this thing for it.

Cheers

[chrisbalich]

Coming along great, Gabe!

I'm not going to lie, I find that a lot times having the garage a mess causes me a lot of stress. Then I clean it and wonder how/why I ever let it get so bad.
I am super jealous of your lift. Danmar still hasn't responded at all to my April 1 order for anchors so I can mount mine.

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Coming along great, Gabe!

I'm not going to lie, I find that a lot times having the garage a mess causes me a lot of stress. Then I clean it and wonder how/why I ever let it get so bad.
I am super jealous of your lift. Danmar still hasn't responded at all to my April 1 order for anchors so I can mount mine.

Thanks Chris!

I'm not sure if the garage being a mess is the stress or the stress came from it becoming a mess but either way, I agree. It's helpful to do a big cleanup between every large phase. After cleaning up this time around I've been putting all the tools back into their respective places at the end of the day. That alone has been helpful, going to grab something and it being there. Leaving stuff lying around is probably how half the 10mms go missing, lol.

The lift is so helpful! Getting the car up to waist height is great for working on the interior. What's the deal with the anchors? Are they something special/specific? I feel like concrete anchors are something you could get at most hardware stores or for sure McMaster Carr/Grainger.