Project Avocado - 1986 Moss Green 911 Rebuild

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by Gabe.

Thanks Chris!

I'm not sure if the garage being a mess is the stress or the stress came from it becoming a mess but either way, I agree. It's helpful to do a big cleanup between every large phase. After cleaning up this time around I've been putting all the tools back into their respective places at the end of the day. That alone has been helpful, going to grab something and it being there. Leaving stuff lying around is probably how half the 10mms go missing, lol.

The lift is so helpful! Getting the car up to waist height is great for working on the interior. What's the deal with the anchors? Are they something special/specific? I feel like concrete anchors are something you could get at most hardware stores or for sure McMaster Carr/Grainger.

They're pretty specific, but I reckon you're right. I should be able to get something close enough through McMaster or Grainger. I'm going to call Danmar today and see if I can get some answers.

[Gabe.]

Time for some more updates... I once again had to go back to see what pictures I had taken, the week consisted of a lot of odds and ends along with waiting for things I ordered to arrive (I'm still waiting for some 1.5" 4:1 Adhesive Lined heatshrink, apparently it was lost in the mail). It's been pretty exhausting so you get a "list" rather than dramatic storytelling.

The week started with high hopes with the following:

• Setup and wired the relay/fuse box
• wired leads and from relay box into front of car
• Cleaned and installed oil lines
• Filled with oil
• Underhood I installed a new fuel filter, engine pad, and vacuum lines
• Tried a rust remover on the brake rotors since this car has sat a while
• Mounted AC compressor and installed belt, and proceeded to take it on and off several times
• repinned the ignition and injection wires when I realized they were supposed to be pinned via firing order and not via 1A, 2B, etc
• Installed the battery and connected the terminals
• Turned the key from ACC, to On, to Start and nothing happened when cranking to start. At that point I was done for the day.
• I had a feeling that there was an issue with the ignition switch and/or it's wiring. The next morning I cleaned all of the connections, still nothing.
• Decided the ignition switch might be dead, realized I had another one, and was able to confirm that was the problem by hooking the other switch to the harness, have it dangling from the dash, and turning it over with the screwdriver! IT CRANKED OVER!
• At this point I could finally make sure it built oil pressure
• Realized I was getting NOTHING on my oil pressure gauge
• Freaked out
• Then tested the wiring and sensor and came to the conclusion that my gauge might be dead somehow. It stays at zero whether or not there is power to it and grounding the sensor wire makes no difference.
• It's exhausting working out issue after issue but what keeps me going is that I will eventually prevail.
• The next test of my move forward and prevail methodology was removing the old ignition switch from the steering lock/key mechanism. For which you need to remove those snap-off style bolts that hold the mechanism to the dash. One got loose with a few smacks of a hammer and chisel, the other, not so much. I tried the chisel, grinder, drill, and air hammer. It took me two hours but was a combination of the air chisel/hammer and drill starting with a 1/16 bit that wasn't moving all over the place that ultimately got it loose. Someone had used blue LOCTITE on that bolt. Wtf, thanks to whomever did that, I'll never get those two hours back.
• After this I was ready to connect my MS3Pro to my laptop but I wasn't getting any signal through the USB. This brought me to Sunday evening and I was ready to pack it in. I had literally turned a year older dealing with all these little details all week and it was time to relax the rest of the day.
• On Monday morning I did some diagnosis on my sensors, power, and ground wiring to my ecu before I found that my 12v constant wire wasn't fully seated in it's pin. After that, the ECU connected to my computer!
• With the ECU connected I was now able to start calibrating my TPS, IAT, Cylinder head temp, wideband 02, and Map sensors.
• It was at this point that I started working on the toothed wheel trigger settings in Tunerstudio. I was attempting to use the OEM 129-1 toothed wheel and original sensors and was getting an error as that wasn't working in the software. Through my additional research after this I realized that NO ONE has successfully run this setup on a 3.2 that I could find. I have a 36-1 trigger wheel/crank pulley that I had previously removed so I set myself to put that back into the car and change my wiring harness to utilize that sensor. That took the rest of the day. Turns out it's much more difficult to do all of that with the engine and harness in the car.
• This brings us current to Yesterday. With the VR sensor mounted to the standoff, oil pressure gauge wired to an ohmmeter, and a fully charged battery I was ready to sync the trigger wheel!
• With everything connected, tooth logger up, battery fully charged, spark plugs out, there isn't ANYTHING showing up on the tooth logger while cranking. The MS3Pro doesn't have adjustable VR pots, I've swapped polarity on the wires, played with the gap (currently 0.75mm), and searched google until late in the night.
• My plan for today is to mount the sensor back in the car, connect a voltmeter to the output, crank the car over, and see if I'm getting any voltage out of the VR crank sensor. I tried it with the sensor out of the car last night passing a screwdriver over it but I wasn't getting anything. VR sensors seem to be very simple so I'm not sure how the one I have could have gone bad. I'll also take a look at grounds but both the logic and power ground are straight to the negative battery terminal as defined in the manual. All the other sensors that are connected through that connector seem to be working appropriately too.

At this point I'm looking for thoughts/ideas as to what to check next. Any help is appreciated!

For your assistance, a few pics throughout the week:

Laid out


Mid-process


Finished up!


Installed in the car


Oil lines hooked up


New engine pad glued in and fuel filter installed


8 Quarts of BR30 in for whenever this first startup actually happens.


The Murderous ignition switch bolt that took two hours to remove.


I won!


Terrible picture of my GSF 36-1 trigger pulley mounted back in the car.


It's funny to go back through these pictures because I took less and less as I was troubleshooting and grinding through these roadblocks. I'm sure some of you know how that goes...

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by Gabe.

It's exhausting working out issue after issue but what keeps me going is that I will eventually prevail.

It's funny to go back through these pictures because I took less and less as I was troubleshooting and grinding through these roadblocks. I'm sure some of you know how that goes...

Wildly relatable.
Keep going. That first drive is on the horizon.

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Wildly relatable.
Keep going. That first drive is on the horizon.

SOON!

Quick update, mounted the VR sensor back in the car and hooked up my multimeter to show AC voltage. Cranked the car and we have 200 mv, which from my research means it's doing what it's supposed to. WTF car. JUST WORK, PLEASE?

[Gabe.]

Another update...

After testing that the sensor was working, I went to test to make sure it was getting the same or similar voltage at the ecu plug.

That's when I discovered this:



I bought this ECU as an unused package but they had started to modify the wiring harness for their Mustang. They must have been planning to use a Hall sensor and not a VR sensor because you don't use the CKP- that was cut off with the Hall. Anyways, I crimped that wire back on and inserted it into the AMP connector.

Then tested it again at the ECU connector end... NOTHING! Restested the sensor on it's own and had the same reading as before. I realized that possibly the Bosch EV connector wasn't properly hitting the pins of the sensor so I swapped a new connector on. This time I tested the wiring and it's working properly from sensor to ECU connector!

Time to plug the connector back into the ECU, turn on tooth logger, crank the engine over and hopefully see a signal... NO DICE! What the heck.

Taking a lunch break, doing some googling, and I'll be back at it this afternoon with hopefully better news.

If I can get this working, I should be able to get the car fired up.

[4flyboy]

Gabe,

Are birthday wishes in order.......I seem to recall that you set that as a goal, almost there!

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by 4flyboy

Gabe,

Are birthday wishes in order.......I seem to recall that you set that as a goal, almost there!

Hey Scott, thank you! It was over the weekend. Didn't hit my goal of getting the car started but it's honestly never been closer to running/driving than where I am now.

[Gabe.]

On Wednesday I was having trouble getting a crank signal after diagnosing and fixing a missing wire/pin to the Ampseal ECU connector and a Bosch EV connector at the VR crank sensor that didn't have a good connection with the pins.

With those two issues fixed I was consistently getting a ~200 mv AC signal from the crank sensor all the way to the ECU connector but I wasn't getting any rpm signal in tunerstudio.

After staring at it long enough I realized there were two things at play, battery voltage and me not cranking the car long enough to get an RPM signal to the ecu. I had pulled a plug out of each cylinder so the car was cranking quickly but having the car ON for long periods of time working in Tunerstudio and cranking it over SEVERAL times the voltage was dropping from ~11.8 to 10.8 with the current draw from the starter. After reading through the manual some more it actually recommended cranking the car over for 10+ seconds for the ECU to get a signal. I thought I had been cranking it that long but wasn't counting, turns out I wasn't even close. Once I counted out 10-15 seconds while cranking I was able to get a signal!

Once I had a signal it was time to stop at Harbor Freight for a timing light. I got back home, hooked it up, and was having trouble getting the light to work and RPM sync was intermittent. I thought I had a bum timing light until I tried it on my truck and it worked completely fine. It was getting to dinner time at that point so I threw in the towel.

Wednesday night I also had a few parts arrive. The 1.5" adhesive lined heatshrink FINALLY showed up after the initial order got lost and my new ignition switch arrived too.

Thursday morning I installed the new switch and set to diagnosing this no crank signal issue again. I fiddled with the VR sensor gap, tested continuity on the wires, and was still consistently getting signal from the sensor to the ecu connector... Hmm. On a whim, I decided to charge the battery and then go do some other tasks, like sharpen my reel mower and mow the lawn.

I came back a few hours later to a battery that at least had 12v now. Figured that may be better than the 11.5/6 that it had gotten down to and connected the terminals, cranked it over, and IMMEDIATELY had a crank sensor signal sometimes it really is that simple.

Next was to tackle fuel. The whole time I've been messing around with tunerstudio I've had the fuel pump disconnected. I connected it, turned the key to ON, and immediately blew a fuse. Hmm, that's weird. I hard wired the pump directly from my relay box with 12 gauge wire and a ten amp fuse and had the ground directly to the battery. I've modeled much of my ECU/Relay/Fusebox off of the Rasant kit, it's clean and simple. They also run a 10 amp fuse in their fuse box for the fuel pump but when I thought about it, that seemed like a really low amperage. The stock fuse is a 25 amp fuse and 12 gauge wire should be good for 20 amps (despite the stock wiring looking like 14 gauge?). I popped a 20amp fuse in there, turned the key, and the pump seemed to turn on fine with no popped fuse!!! Except I still have no fuel pressure.

I solicited my wife to come out to the garage and turn the car on while I laid under the front of it to listen to the pump. It seemed to click on when you first cycle the key but wasn't making the usual noise of a fuel pump, it was also warm to the touch. I had her turn the key off and as I laid there underneath my car, staring at the brand new fuel tank, had a recollection from chemistry classes. Water is more dense than gasoline, if there's any chance that water got into the original tank, with the pump being at the lowest point, it seems like it probably rusted and seized up. So back to my computer I go to look for a replacement pump

It's comical how many little things have popped up these last two weeks. I know I'll ultimately prevail and I don't have any qualms about replacing parts that may be ~34 years old. If anything having so many things replaced and understanding how so much of this car works, I'll be quite a bit more confident driving it around the country.

Anyways, the pump is on order and should be arriving midday today. I'm going to try firing it up again once it's installed and I'll be able to set/confirm ignition timing at idle and set fuel pressure. I'm also getting a 964 windshield installed this morning. Once I put the rest of the glass in and get it registered (surprisingly difficult to do with an out of state car and DMV locations that are closed right now) I should be able to start ripping it around and breaking the engine in.

SOON!

[chrisbalich]

Kicking ass and taking names!
I'm super stoked for you, Gabe.

Happy belated birthday as well.

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Kicking ass and taking names!
I'm super stoked for you, Gabe.

Happy belated birthday as well.

Thanks Chris!

[Gabe.]

Well today was a bit of a bust. My windshield appointment was moved to Wednesday morning. Apparently no one realized the need for two people to install the windshield...

My fuel pump also came in but it was the incorrect part in the correct box. Who knows what goes on at those parts places...

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by gabe.

well today didn't go as planned, but opened up opportunities to work on other car projects. One step closer every day.

ftfy

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

ftfy

Haha, well since I was already at the auto parts store I grabbed a new serpentine belt for my truck. I'd put off that $30 spend for waaaaay too long.

The new fuel pump arrived on Saturday and is in and working as it should. But not before getting two armpits full of fuel and a watch band that still stinks. The clamp that holds the hose to the pump had a bolt that was bent so I needed to take the hose off the tank outlet and try to quickly plug it



I attempted another start again after installing the pump on Saturday afternoon but I wasn't getting a consistent RPM sync again and then what has been an inconsistent signal all-out disappeared. No matter what I did the RPM sync would never turn green. I cleaned all the grounds and it cranks over much better now, got a different battery charger with a 50 amp "quick start" setting, and still nothing.

So I spent some more time yesterday diagnosing the VR crank sensor. When connecting the multimeter leads to the sensor, setting it to AC voltage, and cranking the car over I get a consistent 200 mv at the ecu connector. When setting it to check continuity via ohms, it's infinity whether or not the car is cranking, it should show some continuity. I don't know how I can get voltage yet no continuity. So I'm back to considering that the sensor is bad. I ordered a new one from Clewett since I have their sensor bracket, I may consider grabbing their hall sensor instead if that will get me a better and more consistent signal.

Hopefully, I'll have some more updates for you all later this afternoon!

[chrisbalich]

Good luck.
I hope it goes well.

[Gabe.]

It's alive!



I'm lucky enough to have Clewett about 20 minutes away and was able to pickup a magnetic/VR crank sensor from him yesterday morning. When I got home I tested that sensor for continuity and AC voltage. Both were in spec! I plugged my laptop in and immediately had crank sync

After that, I put the spark plugs back in and turned the key for another "first start" attempt. It cranked, fired, and died and I wasn't able to keep it running. It seemed like I had a massive vacuum leak of some sort. So I took a break, ate lunch, and came back to the garage with some fresh motivation. While eating lunch I also cobbled together some ignition/VE fueling maps because I thought that could have been the issue. With Chris having more luck on Alpha-N, I also switched all my settings over to that.

I didn't have any clamps on my vac lines because most were a snug fit. The few that weren't I zip-tied them until I'm able to get some proper spring clamps in the mail. I also had a large vac line going from a hose barb to what I assumed was the charcoal canister in the passenger rear wheel well. That was post throttle body and when I looked at the original induction setup I saw that was hooked up prethrottle to the air box. I plugged that up hoping it may be my vac leak, went to start it and was still having the same issues.

After a few mintues, I decided to switch everything back to speed density since that's how I originally had the ecu setup. First crank, it fired right up! OMG it felt so great to hear that happen after a full weeks worth of diagnosis.

I put the driver seat back in so I had somewhere to sit for the 20 minute cam break-in, setup my wideband gauge and ohmmeter hooked up to the oil pressure gauge, and let it rip. 8 minutes in I had a neighbor stop by to ask how long I would be doing this He seemed to be ok with my 12 more minute answer but I'm glad I don't need to do that again.

Since the cam break-in I have drained the oil, changed the filter, and added 9 quarts of Driven BR. I also installed both the front and rear sway bars.

Today I'm going to sync the ITBs, set the idle, confirm ignition timing and get the car ready for it's windshield tomorrow morning so that I can register the car and start breaking it in. That's obviously what I'm most excited about. Shaking this thing down and making sure it all works as it should! I'd also like to get my tach working and the wideband properly reading the correct information from the gauge into Tunerstudio. Currently, the gauge is accurate but the AFR in tunerstudio is bouncing around and way too high.

Thanks to all of you for following along. I feel really accomplished and am looking forward to sharing more vids as I work through getting it on the road!

[chrisbalich]

Hell yeah, gabe!!

[Gabe.]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Hell yeah, gabe!!

It was nice to bask in the first startup glory.

The day after the first start and cam break-in I synced the carbs, checked timing, and went for a drive around the block. I had initially set the tooth #1 angle at 60 degrees and when I checked it with the timing light it was off by 10 degrees. I moved it down to 50 and we were all good! It's clearly important to have the ECU and mechanical timing synced. It started to run so much better after that.

This car sounds SO GOOD. Nice lumpy idle and great part throttle. You can hear a little of that in the video below. (my apologies for my wife filming it vertically, she did go to film school... )



As I was turning to roll back into my driveway from the drive around the block, the car shut off. After a quick diagnosis I found that we weren't getting any fuel pressure again. The brand new fuel pump had died already... I'm fortunate to have a few decent euro parts places within a half hour drive of my house and was able to pickup a new Bosch pump same day, I really wish I would have just bought one from there in the first place.

With the new pump installed, it fired right back up!

I've kept moving down my list of things to do: installed windshield washer jug, rear windscreen, passenger rear quarter glass, and the rear bumper. It really feels like the car is coming together.

In prep for registration, I found out that I need to get a brake/light check, which seems important anyways but I hadn't checked much of the lighting.

Turns out, the following aren't working: Turn signals (no flashing or even turning on), Passenger rear lights are completely dead (I've swapped bulbs to the other side and they're fine), no brake lights (checked the brake switch and it's operable), and the clock light is on when the switch is off, off when the light switch is turned on.

I've been burning the candle at both ends and have felt pretty burnt out trying to track these issues down. Am I missing anything obvious before I go to town with my multimeter? Any obvious grounds I may have missed that have something to do with the lighting?

Thanks for your help!

[chrisbalich]

There's a big ol' ground wire on both tail light ass'ys that need hooked to the chassis. I'd check there first if the whole thing is inop.
I had to chase some weird light issues when I started hooking my car back up and they were almost all ground-related.
Stoked to see you going down the road! I know that feels good.

Also, I vividly remember how much I did not like driving without a windscreen.

[Gabe.]

Yep, that's where I started, with the grounds back there. They were filthy but operational. I took the time to clean them anyways.

I did some more testing today, starting with the reverse lights and switch. Switch works, checked the wiring between the switch and plug, that was good, next step was the lights themselves and after poking around I noticed they weren't contacting the copper strip very well. Cleaned everything up, bent the strips a bit, turned the car on with it in reverse and we have lights! On both sides too!

I was hopeful that maybe the tail lights had the same issue, turns out they don't, but it was worth cleaning up all those contacts anyways.

I was going through the routine of checking continuity between wiring connections and made a discovery. The wire that connects the tail lights at the light switch has continuity at 4 or 5 of the taillight connector pins on the rear of the car... booooo, I may have a short somewhere.

Are there any common areas for that to happen? I took a lunch break and will head back out to the garage later to see if there is anything obvious.

Edit: although there aren’t any popped fuses, I’ve checked continuity on all of them. Shorts usually mean a power wire grounding out and popping a fuse. What the heck is going on with my car?

[AutoXer23]

Your build is motivating. I'm about to hit the garage right now!!