Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK, Cheltenham
Posts: 347
Eisenmann exhaust for Carrera 3.2

Nine weeks to the day after placing my order my Eisenmann exhaust was delivered to me today. It had sustained shipping damage (due I believe to inadequate packaging) but that's not the worst part.

Any welders on here care to comment on what they see?









__________________
"Racing is Life. Anything that happens before, or after, is just waiting"

1988 Carrera 3.2 Sport Coupe - my mistress
2009 BMW E60 saloon - the work horse
2012 BMW F11 touring - the dog bus!
Old 04-15-2019, 07:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jp-oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Calgary Alberta, Columbia Lake BC
Posts: 369
Garage
I weld, but am not a welder and I don't work with stainless. But I dunno, those don't look like 3000.00 Euro welds.
__________________
1986 Meteor Grey Carrera
Old 04-15-2019, 07:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK, Cheltenham
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp-oh View Post
I weld, but am not a welder and I don't work with stainless. But I dunno, those don't look like 3000.00 Euro welds.
My thoughts exactly. Eisenmann declares 'first class workmanship' on their website.

I have one heat exchanger that has a neat allowance for clearance and one that looks as though it has been randomly beaten with a hammer:




__________________
"Racing is Life. Anything that happens before, or after, is just waiting"

1988 Carrera 3.2 Sport Coupe - my mistress
2009 BMW E60 saloon - the work horse
2012 BMW F11 touring - the dog bus!
Old 04-15-2019, 08:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 195
I would be more than a little upset.
__________________
'88 Targa
Old 04-15-2019, 08:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,694
Garage
Just an observation but the man made dents look to me like these exchangers may have been returned and the dents were made by whoever bought them and tried unsuccessfully to get them mounted up. I've seen similar dents on SSI's.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 04-15-2019, 09:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
914-6Werkshop
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 2,184
I would get my money back or if they are unwilling, call my credit card company.

Most of the high end exhausts make you say WOW! - in a good way, when you open the package.


I've had a lot of exhaust come through with some dings on the unsupported round ends but a large wood dowel will get it back to round. The exhaust you pictured has way bigger issues.
__________________
914-6Werkshop.com

Last edited by mepstein; 04-15-2019 at 10:35 AM..
Old 04-15-2019, 10:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 548
That's worse than eBay OBX Made in China quality...
Old 04-15-2019, 11:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,902
Dents look the same as my Eisenmann set, but the quality of the welds are definitely sub-par

Dennis
Old 04-15-2019, 05:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK, Cheltenham
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mepstein View Post
I would get my money back or if they are unwilling, call my credit card company.

Most of the high end exhausts make you say WOW! - in a good way, when you open the package.


I've had a lot of exhaust come through with some dings on the unsupported round ends but a large wood dowel will get it back to round. The exhaust you pictured has way bigger issues.
Thanks.

How would you categorise the issues?
__________________
"Racing is Life. Anything that happens before, or after, is just waiting"

1988 Carrera 3.2 Sport Coupe - my mistress
2009 BMW E60 saloon - the work horse
2012 BMW F11 touring - the dog bus!
Old 04-15-2019, 09:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palm Coast FL
Posts: 835
Garage
Send a message via ICQ to Sebscst
As a welder the welds were done by mig not tig. To get a quality weld on stainless Steel it should be tig welded. Those mig welds are for high production parts not a high end exhaust system. Also the welds look contaminated and will probably start to oxidize. In general they’re ****ty.
__________________
83 944 ( R.I.P.)
78 911 st backdate (3 years and counting)
87 944
Old 04-16-2019, 01:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny042's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, ON/Grand Portage, MN
Posts: 1,913
Garage
I've welded MIG on stainless. It works, and it's done all the time. It's not as pretty as the "stack of dimes' welds you'll see on instagram..... In fact, it's tricky to get a nice looking weld on stainless with MIG, but I wouldn't worry that they are going to fall apart or corrode. I hate to think what those HE's would cost if they were TIG welded. Likely double what you paid.

Here is a pic (zoomed in) of the F model HE's from the Eisenmann webiste:



Clearly not that far off what you received. My advice is, put the system on the car and enjoy it for what it's supposed to be, an exhaust system, not modern art. By all accounts you are going to be happy with the sound and performance and a few less than perfect (but functional) welds aren't going to matter.

In a few months it's going to be discolored and corroded and look "rusty" anyway. I can take a picture of a well used set of SSI's later and you'll see what I mean.

Not to say they couldn't be better, prettier, and presented a little more neatly, and I totally understand what you mean, and why you are questioning them. But enjoy them for what they are.

PS - no skin in the game, but I do have a set of HE's and a muffler on order. (EDIT - hopefully they don't take 9 weeks, but they are currently the only option for big-bore factory type heat exchangers)
__________________
87 Coupe - The Driver
78 Backdate - The Project http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/979976-project-heavy-metal-all-steel-classic-remastered.html
85 Coupe - The AX Beater

Last edited by Jonny042; 04-16-2019 at 06:16 AM..
Old 04-16-2019, 06:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
shoooo32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 168
Garage
For $3k I'd want them polished like a mirror and shipped in a velvet bag like a bottle of Crown Royal.

My $300 used steelies sprayed with $8 worth of Ace BBQ paint are looking better and better
__________________
Instagram: @shoooo32
Old 04-16-2019, 07:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
914-6Werkshop
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 2,184
Ben/MB911 sent me a set of his custom 914-6 heat exchangers. When I pulled them out of the box, everyone at the shop agreed this guy knows how to weld. Not pretty like a stamped part but "no excuses" on every weld bead.

The first two pics on post #3 look like someone used tin snips to clearance the side. Terrible.
I bet these were a return that had a lot of "custom" work done to them. Most of the spot welded and preformed parts look nice.


__________________
914-6Werkshop.com

Last edited by mepstein; 04-16-2019 at 08:15 AM..
Old 04-16-2019, 08:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,425
Completely unimpressed with the welds the OP posted. That is NOT a case of high end welding..

Mark thanks for the props on my heat exchangers..
__________________
Ben

914-6 2.4s GT tribute.
914-6werkshop.com manufacturer of 914-6, GT, Conversion parts
Old 04-16-2019, 01:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK, Cheltenham
Posts: 347
Eisenmann response to my concerns on welding quality and the dents:

'Regarding the dents in the main body, these are the same as in all these units, they are made with a dedicated shaped press and then treated with acid as anti-rust measure.
From the images you have sent Germany have stated there are no apparent defects with the welding nor the construction of the units as a whole, as you will see from the below photos of other such units.
The purpose of the welding on these units is for function and structural integrity not aesthetics, especially as the items are almost invisible from the engine bay once installed, so Eisenman could not issue a new set simply on the subjective issue of the welds’ appearance; these items are sold for their function, not appearances, respectfully.

I would also respectfully mention neither we nor Germany have had any complaints on these units in all the many years they have been sold.'
__________________
"Racing is Life. Anything that happens before, or after, is just waiting"

1988 Carrera 3.2 Sport Coupe - my mistress
2009 BMW E60 saloon - the work horse
2012 BMW F11 touring - the dog bus!
Old 04-16-2019, 09:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palm Coast FL
Posts: 835
Garage
Send a message via ICQ to Sebscst
They’re correct there is nothing “wrong” with those welds. However they are more suited for a muffler you buy at advanced auto parts not a 3000€ unit.
__________________
83 944 ( R.I.P.)
78 911 st backdate (3 years and counting)
87 944
Old 04-17-2019, 02:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK, Cheltenham
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebscst View Post
They’re correct there is nothing “wrong” with those welds. However they are more suited for a muffler you buy at advanced auto parts not a 3000€ unit.
I agree completely but my argument has fallen on deaf ears.

They are simply not interested.
__________________
"Racing is Life. Anything that happens before, or after, is just waiting"

1988 Carrera 3.2 Sport Coupe - my mistress
2009 BMW E60 saloon - the work horse
2012 BMW F11 touring - the dog bus!
Old 04-17-2019, 02:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
a.k.a. G-man
 
Geronimo '74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,985
Garage
Give them a lifetime worth of bad mouth to mouth advertising.
Let them know that you will advice anyone you know to not buy their stuff due to poor craftsmanship and terrible after sale service.
Maybe they will turn around, maybe not. Some sellers actually care about their reputation.

I bought a ducktail once that did not fit at all, needed so much work that I had to pay more to get it straight than the initial cost. It was advertised as needing very little fitting...
I got finger when I contacted the seller again.

Since then I warned at least 4 potential new customers to go elsewhere.
Made me feel warm inside every time.
Yes, I can hold a grudge.
__________________
Geronimo
32C Member #41

1986 911 3.2 Carrera (not stock)
1974 911 2.7 9114102230 SOLD
Old 04-17-2019, 02:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Burlington, Wisconsin
Posts: 9,425
Ok so then why are the parts electro polished if appearance is not a goal? Function over form is the claim well that truely is the goal with my 914-6 heat exchangers.. Hmm maybe I should make some 911 heat exchangers like this..

Rarlyl8 want to collaborate on them?
Old 04-17-2019, 02:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb911 View Post
..Hmm maybe I should make some 911 heat exchangers like this..
Yes please!

They don't have to look exactly like SSI's but as long as they had 1 5/8" primaries, the heat exchangers intakes matched the standard Carrera 3.2 air distribution tube and the header exhaust outlets had the generic 2 bolt flanges at the generic Porsche spacing between them so you have a wide range of readily available existing mufflers to choose from, I think you would be on a winner.



3.2 owners form a orderly queue here please.
Old 04-17-2019, 03:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:34 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.