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Porsche Crest Manual Transmission Lube or "MTL" by Redline

I just read an article by Jay Leno in AUTOWEEK and his "belief or success" in using Redline Manual Transmission Lube or "MTL."

I found 1 mention of this in the forums by a BMW user who also thought it worked.

Anyone ever use this or have thoughts?
Old 05-22-2019, 06:13 AM
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gearhead
 
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No, it's not GL5.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:31 AM
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They do make a GL-5 rated 75W90 Non-slip (NS) though... was thinking of trying it in my 915 for autox.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:48 AM
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I used it in my 2011 Jetta TDI with the 6 speed. After 50k miles the tranny starting having trouble shifting into 1st so I switched back to OEM and that mostly fixed it.
Old 05-22-2019, 06:56 AM
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I had used Redline products for 20 years. I have not in my Porsche's, but found their MTL was great in an Acura transaxle, a mitsubishi rally car driveline, an 1970 FJ40 .....always had god luck with their transmission, engine and differentials. I have not used them in the last 5-7 yers, but for no particular reason. I love how their base oil is so different from other synthetics. I would make sure though the they have not been bought. Often get company can be bought and their product quality changes.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:12 AM
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MTL is supposed to be GL-4.
I put the redline GL-5 75w90ns in a 996 on owners request, IIHO I don't think shifting is as smooth as the LiquiMoly I have been using in these cars.

901, 911, 915 I'm sticking with a dino oil.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:23 AM
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Years back I took a trans rebuild class from Jerry Woods and Bruce Anderson. They both recommended Swepco 201 for 915's, as have other experts, so that's what I've always used. It's in my SC right now. We disassembled a G50 with Redline in it and they didn't have anything positive to say about it. But I sold a Carrera on BaT a while back and it had almost 239k miles. It came with a stack of complete records that showed that it had been serviced regularly and always with Redline trans fluid. The trans had never been rebuilt and worked fine, other than the sloppy shifter. I thought that was pretty impressive..
Old 05-22-2019, 07:31 AM
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Don't use Redline anything in a 915. You will regret it.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:46 AM
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Not many choices if you want a synthetic GL 5 in a lighter weight oil, without added friction modifiers?
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny042 View Post
Not many choices if you want a synthetic GL 5 in a lighter weight oil, without added friction modifiers?
Don’t use anyone’s synthetic in a 915.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:30 AM
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Too slippery?
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny042 View Post
Too slippery?
Yep.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:54 AM
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Resulting in grinding?

EDIT - see below
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Last edited by Jonny042; 05-27-2019 at 04:50 AM..
Old 05-22-2019, 10:21 AM
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From another thread, but I'll post it here:

I got my transmission back in the car new 1st/2nd dog teeth, slider, bands, and synchro rings. And am happy to report there has been a massive improvement in shifting, even with only a few miles of break in (and 6 autox runs).

I feel like I have a much better understanding of how the 915 and in particular the baulk ring synchro operates and how it wears/fails. Over the years I've learned over and over, that worn synchros = grinding and carried that with me into this endeavour with the 915. WRONG!!!

Now I know that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the trans (less than 75K on it) other than worn 1st and 2nd synchro rings. Even though they measured within .1 mm of spec, on closer inspection I could see that the second gear ring was worn smooth (not quite shiny) and the first was worn right through the friction material and shiny.

So, even though the trans was low mileage and I never experienced grinding, it was indeed worn/weak synchros that was making the trans hard to get into gear.

The car is much more fun to drive now - being able to select 1st gear when the light turns green helps, and being able to shift properly and swiftly into 2nd seals the deal.

Close ratio gears (2nd and 3rd are now SC/RS ratios) are icing on the cake. This thing rips like a proper hot rod, now.

No, it's not a honda or a miata, thank you very much.


With my new, better, understanding, of the way the baulk ring synchros work, I can see that having the proper interaction between the slider and synchro ring is important, and that "too slippery" is a bad, bad, thing.

My biggest complaint of the Swepco 201 is that it's the consistency of molasses, and the transmission shifts like it, when cold. Note that ambient temps autocrossing yesterday were 50 degrees F or so..... brrrrr ... and with 30 minutes of cool down between runs with no warm up!

Comparing the viscosity of the 201, Redline 75W90(NS) and Motul Gear 300 (another of a rare breed, non-limted slip 75W90 synth?) and finally Kendall 75W90 NS - MP.

Lube / 40 degree celcius viscosity / 100 degree viscosity / pour point
Swepco 201 / 160 / 16.38 / -26 deg. C
Motul Gear 300 / 72.6 / 15.2 / -60 deg. C
Redline 75W90(NS) / 89 / 15.6 / -45 deg. C
Kendall 75W90 NS-MP / 101 / 15.0 / -45 deg. C

Funny to note that Swepco 201 doesn't seem to be GL-5 rated which is a surprise, and also that it contains a limited slip differential additive. Looks like Kendall is worth a try for better cold shifting, and if that doesn't do the trick maybe the Motul which has good reviews when used in 901s and 915s.
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Last edited by Jonny042; 05-27-2019 at 08:19 AM..
Old 05-27-2019, 07:58 AM
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put RL it in my 901 914/6 track car back in 1996 - the trans did not survive 2 GGR TT weekends -

current 901 running "supertech shelf oil" has never had a problem - can't say the RL caused the problem, but it scared me enuf to never use it again

there are some really good analyses of the issues as related to the type of synchros we have - lots of them on the nissan/datsun forums where the issue is also relevant .... ( have a FS5W71B (copper alloy synchro rings) in my other race car that i had to rebuild for synchro issues - so i care about that)

some quotes:

". . . there is a Technical Service Bulletin from Nissan advising not to use GL-5 on older manual transmissions because the sulfur content is way higher than in GL-4 and corrode "Yellow Metals" like brass and bronze. This is a very well known fact among the 240sx,Sentras,200sx and many other Nissans with transmissions that have bronze Synchros. "

"a reliable yellow metal safe synthetic oil is easily obtainable in the form of supertech synthetic blend oil available at walmart"

" the following commentary that was submitted to the Triumph List (Team.Net) by a chemical engineer, working in the petroleum industry, and you’ll learn that GL-4/GL-5 are performance specifications, not manufacturing specifications, and do nothing to limit the amounts of compounds harmful to the soft metals in our gearboxes" to wit:

From: Brad Jordan, Equilon Lubricants October 17, 2001
"At low pressure and temperatures, the viscosity of the fluid is what keeps the gear teeth apart and prevents wear. As the load and temperature increases, it becomes the job of the EP, or Extreme Pressure additives to minimize metal-to-metal contact. EP additives in lubricants chemically react under pressure and elevated temperatures with the metal in gears to form a protective film and prevent this metal-to-metal contact.

EP additives are mostly made up of Chlorine, Sulfur, Phosphorous, Zinc and Lead compounds. Due to environmental concerns, Lead is for the most part gone and Chlorine is only used in limited applications. These compounds become active at different temperatures, and therefore, if balanced properly, provide protection at all operating temperatures. The problem in the past with some Sulfur EP additive packages in gear oils and yellow metals is not how much is in the oil, but that the additive breaks down and forms an acid. This acid, if formed, would eat up yellow metals and steel alike.

The problem is the difference between what is called active and inactive Sulfur in the EP additive package. "Active" Sulfur compounds chemically react and form these protective films at much lower temperatures than "inactive" Sulfur EP additives. In some cases these "active" Sulfur additives may even stain the yellow metals in the gear sets.

Whether a particular manufacturer uses active or inactive Sulfur EP agents is really only known by them. API, GL-4 and GL-5 are performance specs, not a formulation specs. Texaco Havoline gear oil 80w-90 and Shell Spirax HD 80w-90 do not stain yellow metals. We also have synthetic products in both brands, but the smallest quantity available is a 5-gallon bucket. Most major manufacturers have steered away from formulations with active sulfur EP additives to avoid staining yellow metals. In general, I would say the API GL-5 Multigear EP SAE 80w-90 lubricants marketed by Exxon-Mobil, Chevron, BP-Amoco, Castrol, Valvoline and Pennzoil would be safe for yellow metals. Also, well-known companies such as Redline, who specialize in motorcycle and sports car racing lubricants, would have products that don't stain yellow metals.

As far as the difference between GL-4 and GL-5, API GL-4 rated lubricants do not have the EP level to withstand shock loading. Unlike API engine service classifications, API gear lubricant classifications are not required to meet the specs of lower classes and it all depends on the application.

So there you have it. GL-4 and GL-5 designations tell us nothing about the active sulfur content of the oil, which is the ingredient that may damage the yellow metals in our gearboxes. It’s also interesting to note that GL-4 is not as capable of withstanding shock loading as GL-5 oils (for those of you who “drive ‘em like you stole ‘em”).


– API GL-1 : mildly loaded gearing, products are just base oil (no test requirements).
– API GL-4 : moderately loaded gearing (original tests listed in ASTM STP 512A-1986).
– API GL-5 : highly loaded and/or high speed gearing (now ASTM D7450).
– API MT-1 : heavy duty non-synchronized manual transmissions (now ASTM D5760).

GL-4 is most often used in older gear sets. Some of them are truck applications where the loads are not very heavy as well as older automobiles. GL-4 gear oils also found some applications in industrial gear sets that were very heavily loaded but were not offset.
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Old 05-27-2019, 09:30 AM
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I'm a total swepco 101 grease fanboy, not so much 201 gear oil I agree it's crap till warm, but shifting never felt smooth. I'd rather use NAPA premium dino and change it often.
The smoothest my 914/901 ever shifted was Kendall semi-synthetic, but I was new to the 914 and everyone told me not to use it. I might investigate it again.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
No, it's not GL5.
yep, GL4.

in regards to larrym's quotes above. the redline is all that will work in my jeep anymore due to Chrysler calling for the use of a GL5 and it degrading the brass based yellow metal syncros. according to a couple jeep forms I visited on the topic there was a technical bulletin from Chrysler calling for the use of the GL4 way too late in the game after much of the damage was already done. I tried a couple different GL4 lubes and only the redline will allow it to shift decently now with the GL5 affect from early on in it's life.


another vote for the swepco 201 for the 915.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:29 PM
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