964 body update?

[Geronimo]

With so many backdates, I want power thus a turbo it mandatory... Which makes me want a big butt...

My favorite is the 964 turbo, so I am wondering how much of the OEM 964 can I use to achieve this goal.

Thinking, front wings, bumpers front and rear, and rockers (though not sure if the attachments exist). I'd rather try to use OEM where possible.


Any help is appreciated in this my long term goal for my lil SC.

[JMS935]

Why not save yourself all of the time and trouble, and just trade up for the real deal?

[msmall215]

I would second that notion. By the time you get through all the body work, paint, etc, you're going to be in for a nice chunk of change. You can turbo your SC, get some 9s on the back, and have at it.

[Geronimo]

Yea, with the price of 965's there is no situation where I could afford one. SC prices are not exactly going north either, so selling would not gain anything.

I have a nice clean driver, figure I can do the changes a bit at a time, upgrading as money allows. I have begun to collect parts toward adding a turbo, and plan to add boost first. But in time I KNOW I will want a wide body... paint might not be in the picture for a long while, wraps have come a long way.

I figure a turbo set up should be in the $5K-$7K range. Body should be $7-$10 before paint with all steel bits.

In time I would sell off the 915 and try to get a "deal" on a SBH930 trans, and save for a low comp rebuild of the 3L and up the boost.

This makes some sense in my head, but there is a lot i'm sure I don't know.

[jons911]

For your 964 look part of the project, just don't do what the previous owner of my car did. They glassed on the 964 rockers as part of their conversion and now I don't have access to my torsion bars. As for going wide body, I love the look too, but you don't need it to get enough rubber in the back. With the carrera flares, I've got 275 in the back. That's not to say I won't or you shouldn't, but if you don't have to do it now, that helps spread out the cost of the project.

I'm wrapping up my turbo conversion at the moment. I'm hoping that by next weekend I should have the last pieces arriving. If you have any questions, feel free to ask since it's all pretty fresh for me.

[Geronimo]

Yea, i'm running 245's now which is what I think stock 930's ran... I just lust after those wide rears, but it last on my list.

Would love to hear how you approached your turbo build. I have PMO carbs, so I plan to run a 3.2 intake and stand alone ECU, would love Rarlyl8 headers, but might have to try OBX to start as a cost saver.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Yea, with the price of 965's there is no situation where I could afford one. SC prices are not exactly going north either, so selling would not gain anything.

I have a nice clean driver, figure I can do the changes a bit at a time, upgrading as money allows. I have begun to collect parts toward adding a turbo, and plan to add boost first. But in time I KNOW I will want a wide body... paint might not be in the picture for a long while, wraps have come a long way.

I figure a turbo set up should be in the $5K-$7K range. Body should be $7-$10 before paint with all steel bits.

In time I would sell off the 915 and try to get a "deal" on a SBH930 trans, and save for a low comp rebuild of the 3L and up the boost.

This makes some sense in my head, but there is a lot i'm sure I don't know.

I think you�re grossly underestimating the cost to do this, and keep in mind you�ll get very little of that money back out of it when you get rid of it. Does that 7-10k even include labor to install the body? I doubt it unless you�re talking about really cheap parts. A quality repaint will add another 10k at the bare minimum. With a color change repaint you could be at 30k or more just in body and paint work alone before you even get to the drivetrain. I�m sure others could chime in with more knowledge than I have of the actual dollars this will cost to do.

If you spend more upgrading to a turbo, it�ll at least retain its value far better. If you�re still against that, then trade up to something that has already been modded to a turbo, where the cost outlay would be less. Meaning not a stock turbo, but something closer to what you want to do, but is already done. Granted if you can find one you like that is. And remember, if you trade up with a dealer you�ll save on taxes too. Don�t give yourself a headache, get yourself a present!

[Geronimo]

There are huge swings in body costs between nice driver to show car... like I said its the last thing on my list.

I am not real worried about getting money back, pretty sure my car is already dropping based on what I am seeing G-bodies selling for this year versus last when I bought... lol so I stuck in it now so i'm going to dig deeper and make it the 911 I have always wanted.

If I tried to sell my car i'd have to add at least 40K just to get into the bottom of the barrel 930's, which isn't going to go over well at home. I can sell a little bit each year over time.

If I wasn't such an idiot I would have just bought a freaking Vette like every other belly button LOL.

But in say 10 years if I can have a nasty lil wide body turbo I'd be a happy boy.

[Trackrash]

You know, you may be able to find a used 964 body kit cheap. Lots of guys upgraded SCs to 964 look alikes back in the day and are now returning them to stock.

Personally, I would do an IROC style car. But those wide wheels and tires can run into real $$$. As stated, you can get fairly serious rubber on the rear of an SC as it is.

Too bad you don't still have the CIS, as that lends itself to a turbo upgrade. BTW, I have a large port CIS taking up space in my garage......

[Geronimo]

Yea, I thought about just doing 930 fenders and quarters, with IROC bumpers, but something about the ol' 965 just appeals to me, if the costs and work to do it is to crazy I would back off a bit.

I have seen quite a few guys turbo 3.2 intakes on 3.0's with good results, looks like a fairly good intake. I would even start getting serious for a couple years or so.

My bigger worry is my currently being rebuild 915 that will melt under anything north of Prius power. Hahahaha

[rattlsnak]

I did the opposite a few years ago. I took an SC and stuffed a 965 motor in it. Power was incredible!! I ended up making it into a 930 bodied car shortly afterwards.

[jons911]

I personally think the first step to your turbo build is do you want more or less the 400hp? Because that seems to be the line where people go from turbocharging their stock motor to tearing it down for pistons and cams. I wanted a fresh motor that I knew exactly what shape everything was in, so I elected to go straight for the rebuild. Also power. It was a slippery slope before I even got to it.

I'll just kind of throw out some ideas since it's all kind of swirling around in my head and hard to keep organized:
-which ecu: depends what you need, twin plug, full sequential, anti lag, launch control, traction control
-where are you going to get a harness
-crank/cam pickup: need both for full sequential, or run just crank, new flywheel with 60-2 or crank pulley trigger wheel
-the '89 964 C4 flywheel is a single mass with 60-2 teeth and bolts up to a 3.2, so I would guess also a 3.0
-Intake: the 3.2 manifold makes for a solid base and I've been told is good for peak power around 6200-6300 rpm, which is fine since turbo, you'll definitely want an intercooler, which gets tricky if you aren't running a turbo tail, where will the intake off the turbo be, ports will need to be matched to the 3.2 runner ports, I believe there are adapter plates the replace the stock 3.2 injector plates that transition the 3.2 port to the SC port
-Exhaust: like you said, Brian makes some nice stuff, but you have to pay up for it, I'm doing a twin turbo build, so I used his regular headers that he put a v band flange on, or you can use the stock headers you already have and just get the up pipe to replace the catalytic converter, also what muffler will you go with since stock won't fit anymore
-boost control: waste gates, blow off valves, boost controller, Tial used to be the standard, but it seems other companies are on par now, Turbosmart was recommended to me, I would look through Jegs and Summit and see what deals are available

If you decide to tear the engine down:
-new pistons, and do you actually need new cylinders (spoiler, pretty likely you don't)
-cam change: SC cams are pretty good for that mid range punch whereas 964 is good for that top end power, my cams are Turbokrafts EFI-T cam which is basically an SC profile but improved to benefit from EFI
-rods: yours should be fine, just have them inspected and rebushed, ARP rod bolts may be nice since they are reusable vice the OEM single use ones
-heads: do you want to go twin plug, does your end goal necessitate it
-oil pump: I've heard switching to the carrera oil pump is a common upgrade from the SC pump

Other odds and ends:
-turbo oil feed: I'm using the 930 feed location at the pressure sending switch, parts for conversion all came from Turbokraft
-turbo return: catch can, scavenge pump, scavenge dump location
-turbo oiling: fittings, lines, and adapters for both sides
-fuel system: pump, regulator, lines, injectors, what stays, what gets upgraded, also a set of 3.2 fuel rails will be easiest since they'll bolt right up and can flow enough fuel for quite a bit of power

If this isn't super helpful, I apologize. It came out as a stream of conscience as it has been a long day. Ask questions and I can clarify the above. If this isn't an immediate project, you can also wait for my build thread to get updated with my parts/price list. I'm hoping to be starting the engine up over 4th of July and have the thread mostly complete by the end of July.

[Geronimo]

OOOOOOOOH, that's gold!

I think if I can get 350-400HP that would be for a pretty nasty lil car, so long as I keep the weight low.

What are you doing for trans? The 915 isn't exactly durable lol

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

OOOOOOOOH, that's gold!

I think if I can get 350-400HP that would be for a pretty nasty lil car, so long as I keep the weight low.

What are you doing for trans? The 915 isn't exactly durable lol

When you introduce a turbo you don�t have to play the silly weight watchers game that all the normally aspirated guys play - that�s nonsense. You need to be more concerned about upgrading the brakes, suspension and transmission to go with that added power. Again...swapping cars is gonna be cheaper and better if you plan on doing it right.

[jons911]

This is on my '88 Carrera, so I'm using a G50. For now, I'm leaving it stock with the stock clutch. This way, during break in and while I'm dialing things in, the clutch should slip before I do any damage. In a few months when I've got it all sorted, I'm planning on dropping it back out to put a Kennedy Engineering Stage 1 clutch, new flywheel, and billet side cover on. Also, I'm sure the transmission fluid could do with changing.

I'm pretty sure Brian is still running a 915 on his turbo, and he is right around 400hp. It'll take it, but you have to be a bit easy getting on the power. The harder you drive it, the shorter it's going to last.

[Geronimo]

This is true, but light AND boost is even better. I feel like most Porsche cars have a chassis and brake package that is a good deal better than the power they start with.

If the price of 930's was a little closer I might consider it, but my SC is dropping while the 930's are still going up a bit.

I also like that I can sneak up on it financially over time.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

This is true, but light AND boost is even better. I feel like most Porsche cars have a chassis and brake package that is a good deal better than the power they start with.

If the price of 930's was a little closer I might consider it, but my SC is dropping while the 930's are still going up a bit.

I also like that I can sneak up on it financially over time.

You can do the same sneaking up over time by financing it. Use your SC for trade in, save on the tax credit, and finance the purchase with collector car financing. You�ll pay less in financing costs than you�d lose when times come to sell the turbo wide-body modded SC. This should cost you less, retain more value in the car, and get to use and enjoy far quicker as well. This should be a no brainer decision unless you�re just bent on taking on a years long project because you�ve got nothing better to do.

[Coastr]

I don�t really see any evidence of a drop in SC prices TBH. I wouldn�t factor that into your decision.

You do need to decide whether the body or the power is more important, and work on whichever is the priority. If it were me I�d be chasing reliable power first. Then decide. Maybe getting a 964 and turboing that might be the right choice.

[Mixed76]

I agree you'd be way better off not making it look like a 964. Go wide, turbo, hot rod, personalize, etc, but keep it an impact bumper.

To me, the cost to change the looks is all out of proportion to the different look. And of course the negative future value change.

I mean, slap a different set of bumpers on there if you want, but don't cut or weld anything that doesn't fit an impact bumper car.

[Garen]

Here's an idea for the bodywork: Go with the "standard" wide body fenders (works on 930 and 964 type bumpers), get a 930/965 style deckled, and do the RUF-style CTR bumpers that eliminate the accordions. It's an aesthetic that fits the G-body era, but is clean like the 965 look. And goes great with 17" wheels, which will give you better tire options. It'll look cool, be lightweight, and stand out from stock 930 bodywork, while being "honest"... you can say that looking inside a car with 965 bodywork, you would expect to see a 965 style interior - with the center tunnel look, etc. The RUF look is amazing in silver or dark grey which would just be an added bonus! Kinda like the car in this link, but with a standard rear reflector.

RUF BTR �*古車 情� �Widehttp://www.wide19.com