Novice question about the alternator belt

steve meltzer · 06-21-2019, 05:22 PM

Other than changing the little odor killing pine tree from red to green, this has to be one of the most basic repairs on a '74 Carrera. I did not remove the belt, someone else did with an alternator repair, so I don't know how it was before. In Wayne's book, he shows a nice drawing of the order of the outside pulley to the holding nut. However he doesn't show the brass concave piece that I have (see red arrow in the picture). I assume that the "stepped" spacer/washer fits inside of that and that the nut goes against the brass cup/concave piece. (it's called an alternator pulley cover). Can someone clarify this?

Also, tho' not stated directly, the belt actually goes on before the outside pulley and extra shims. You don't fight it on with a screwdriver as you might with a conventional one piece pulley.

Any and all help much appreciated. I'm embarrassed to ask such a basic question, but what the heck!

thanx steve

sugarwood · sugarwood's Garage

sugarwood · sugarwood's Garage

I'm not sure what your middle piece is.
It looks very new and shiny.

I think the drawing does show the cup washer.
2nd from right. See my photo.

In my photo above, you can see the cup washer.
Below it, flush, are the unused shim washers.
Then the outside nut.

pulley -> shims -> cup washer -> nut

HarryD · 06-21-2019, 06:35 PM

No such thing as dumb questions. Things are not always as they seem.

Sugarwood has the correct info. The only other thing to remember is that you need to ALWAYS have 6 shim washers. Placement of the shins between the pulley halves or outside is determined by getting the proper tension on the belt. The more shims inside the pulley haves, the lower the belt tides and the looser it is. The cup wager must be used as well.

And yes, you place the belt between the pulley halves after you place the inside shims. Lots of posts in the topic and how it can go south.

HarryD · 06-21-2019, 06:43 PM

One helpful thread: Fan belt replacement is giving me way to much trouble

steve meltzer · 06-21-2019, 07:51 PM

To my eye, that shiny middle piece in my photo is the same as the piece that's second from the right in the illustration. No? Is the thing y'all are calling the cup washer, the brassy domed looking piece i've indicated with the arrow? Does that shiny middle piece go somewhere else, like the leftover parts bin? thanx again. steve

HarryD · 06-21-2019, 09:11 PM

The first picture of Sugarwoods post shows the cup washer in place. The shiny thing next to the nut does not look like it belongs unless the PO used it in place of some of the shims.

Also, when you install the parts, a drop of superglue helps to hold the stack of shims together. It can be tricky to get the shims under the cup washer.

Bill Douglas · 06-21-2019, 09:36 PM

Handy helpful hint for today.

My SC's belt is a little to loose. But if I moved a shim over it would be a little to tight. Too much grief on the alternator bearings.

Soooo, I sprayed Belt Dressing on the belt. Now no chance of it slipping and not too tight. Quite good stuff. A Corolla had squeaking power steering belt. Correct tension, just wouldn't STFU so I spayed it with belt dressing - not a word out of it.

steve meltzer · 06-22-2019, 05:06 AM

Everything points to that shiny piece being a "red herring"...not listed on the Pelican website that i could see. So, hope to get out there to finish her up this AM, biut i'll keep checking for more hints. thanx again. steve

piscator · 06-22-2019, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

Everything points to that shiny piece being a "red herring"...not listed on the Pelican website that i could see. So, hope to get out there to finish her up this AM, biut i'll keep checking for more hints. thanx again. steve

Steve, I have that same 'shiny piece' on my car and it's been there since 1979. I don't know what it is either, but it's precisely machined to fit into the cup washer. I've always taken it to be a kind of washer for distributing the pressure of the nut.

No dumb question! If there were, I couldn't be here! :-)

69porsche · 06-22-2019, 07:46 AM

Your ability to get to point A to point B depends on your ability to change the belt anywhere, anytime with confidence- practice before you have to do the real thing when you are stuck off the road, be sure you have a complete set of shims and a good belt that’s in good shape( check it every few months) not only the one that’s attached to the car but your extra belts and last I copied the diagram from my owners manual and have it laminated and kept in my tool kit and glove compartment for easy references- I also use the appropriate sockets and wrench to supplement my tool kit to ensure easy removal

john walker's workshop · 06-22-2019, 08:32 AM

The thick spacer goes on the shaft first, against the alternator bearing, then the key is installed, then the fan, then the rest of the stuff.

steve meltzer · 06-22-2019, 10:03 AM

Is the thick spacer that "shiny piece"? I have no key either. argghhh. thanx steve

steve meltzer · 06-22-2019, 02:10 PM

I don't see that "shiny" "stepped" washer in any illustration, but I'm sure something's wrong, as I've done these belts years ago, when I had even less skill than I do now. (if you can believe that!) Wasn't memorable, that's for sure. So.....

I took the pulley off and it's immediately obvious that i've fornicated this install. the groove in the alternator shaft is 90° off from the matching one on the large sort of rectangular washer. And, there's no Woodruff key in sight. So, it's back to the drawing board tomorrow, the problem is in front of the belts. More later, even if i hate to admit it. thanx steve

Leebag · 06-22-2019, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

The thick spacer goes on the shaft first, against the alternator bearing, then the key is installed, then the fan, then the rest of the stuff.

+1 as stated above on my sc

piscator · 06-22-2019, 03:35 PM

John and Lee,

This may be a great save, THANK-YOU!

But could you please clarify? Are you saying that the thick spacer goes BEHIND the fan?? That is, it is NOT part of the 'stack' (outboard of the fan) that secures the pulley?!!

If so, then I neglected to put the spacer in place when I remounted the fan after doing my refresh.

Therefore, what you guys are saying is that I need to dismount the fan from the alternator shaft and place this spacer on the shaft, BEFORE remounting the fan. Then the pulley, spacers, cup washer, and nut.

If that's so, what direction should the spacer be fitted? Which side faces out?

If that's all correct, then thank-you!! And a bigger THANK-YOU to the OP whose 'dumb' question revealed my very DUMB mistake!! I would never have caught this in a thousand years, if this thread hadn't been posted!!

steve meltzer · 06-22-2019, 05:51 PM

OK, i'm really confused here. the illustration, posted above, clearly shows a thick washer, pictured here with a red arrow, proud to the fan. Are you saying that washer goes in, before the fan....not after, as illustrated? Do i even have the right washer?

OK, my fan won't even turn and, I can't get that washer off...I guess it's pressed on by tightening something too much or catawampus. In my photo, the yellow arrow points to the groove in the washer, which does NOT align with the one on the shaft (that's certainly part of my problem) suggestions?

Please clarify in real simple terms, so my very simple brain can get the car back on the road. thanx again.

steve

Leebag · 06:35 PM

Washer goes in between alternator and fan. Fan goes after

steve meltzer · 06-22-2019, 08:13 PM

@Leebag...is the spacer you show, the same as the middle "shiny" piece i have in the middle of the array i posted to start this thread? thanx steve

smadsen · 06-22-2019, 08:37 PM

You know, several years ago there were some self-appointed members here who seemed to enjoy chastising newbies for asking simple a question, referring them to the search function rather than wasting their precious time. Their superiority seemed palpable. I think many of us learned a little unknown factoid about the fan belt "system" here and also welcomed a newb with an intelligent discussion. This is why I enjoy the forum. Good on all of ya.