Shipping company broke my cams!!!

Mike the mechanic · 02-04-2003, 08:12 PM

Am I ever pissed! I recently sent my cams to a certain camshaft supplier so they can hardweld and regrind to Gt2 specs, but when they recieved them, both cams were cracked in half!! They told me that the packaging they were in was sufficient to protect them, and that 911 cams are very strong cams. I was told that even dropping them wouldn't crack them, hence, the package must have been mishandled deliberately, or for fun. I am FedUp of being screwed by this shipping service!
I have to wait until they pick up and inspect the package, which I was told will take about 1 week, before I can even know if I will be getting any money back from insurance. The bad part is that I valued the cams at $300 CAN for the pair, not knowing that 3.2 cores are worth much more.

My poor cams!

slammed1000 · 02-04-2003, 08:49 PM

who did you ship them through? i recently had a set of weber's damaged by fed-ex and they are not wanting to pay me for the damages. the carbs were insured but they felt the the packaging was not correct. the packaging was done by a authorized fed-ex shipping outlet and they claim they were packaged correctly. now i am having to sue the packaging company because they are liable. they want to reinstate the claim with fed-ex but they are not getting anywhere becaause fed-ex doesnt want to pay claims over $200. i hope you have better luck than me. this has been going on for 8 weeks now...good luck

Mike the mechanic · 02-04-2003, 08:54 PM

Oh NO!! I used the same shipping company!!! Your post gives me no hope. If the packaging was done by an authorized shipping company, how can they not pay you??? I guess I can kiss my money goodbye...

john_colasante · 02-04-2003, 09:11 PM

You're screwed. Both UPS and FedEX are notorious for not paying any claim for items damaged no matter what the circumstances - they answer the claim like robots - "improper packaging". I think it's a major scam. The insurance is really only if the item is lost and in that case they can't weasel out of it.

Hockey fan · 02-04-2003, 09:20 PM

Not to make you feel worse - but I've shipped with UPS and FedEx every day for the last 7 years. I've tried to collect on several damaged items and have had no luck. UPS makes the claim process so unbearable you generally give up out of frustration. I had one package that fell off the UPS truck and was run over by the driver and I couldn't even receive anything for this.

Hopefully you can get something, but I feel it will be many weeks before you even know if this is a possibility.

Good luck,

Jeff

P.S. I have had claims filed and paid quickly through Roadway and other "Truck" carriers. One claim was even on items shipped to B.C. Not that this helps you but you might be able to ship parts this way in the future.

garrickl · garrickl's Garage

I purchased a set of 964 cams from Joel Reiser in New York, I am in San Francisco, and I sent them back to Joel because one cam was pitted. I used UPS and insured them, and UPS broke the package and lost one of the cams. The good one came back. I filed a claim with them and they paid the full amount of insurance without a problem and I still have one good 964 cam left ..... anyone need one?

speeder · speeder's Garage

Garrick, I'm sending you an email right now about that cam. BTW, the only reason you got paid is because they lost it, if it was damage you would have been screwed.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

At my former employer (a Fortune 1000 company at the time, now a Fortune 500 company) I sat across from the Transportation manager and worked with him on a number of things. A couple pieces of wisdom that I learned about shipping from a guy who managed thousands of shipments a day with values from tens of dollars up to millions of dollars...

1) Fed-Ex and UPS never pay
2) Don't bother buying the insurance because of point 1. It's better to "Self Insure" which means that if the parts are lost or damaged, it's your responsibility to get another. Since we manufactured the things being shipped, this was especially true. But it is also relevent with things like used 911 parts where it is quite possible to get replacements for less then the cost of litigation.
3) If you are packing something, be conservative. Always double-box items with a layer of packing material between the boxes. Most carriers charge on weight more then size, so the cost impact is minimal.
4) Be very consious of the FOB terms when buying products. If you are buying something new and expensive, check if it can be shipped FOB receiver. If my memory is correct, this means that the shipper (not to be confused with the carrier) has responsibility for the material until it arrives at your door. FOB shipper means that the receiver (you) owns the product as soon as it is given to the carrier. It makes a difference if something goes wrong.
5) UPS and FedEx never pay.

While it sucks -- that's life!

garrickl · garrickl's Garage

My wife also mentioned an interesting point, that I am a lawyer and I sent the parts out from my office. The claim form was sent in with a letter from my assistant ..... and they probably paid it because of this.

47silver · 47silver's Garage

does the postal service pay on claims? i use them mostly for my business and do not have problems

911pcars · 02-06-2003, 12:10 AM

FedEx ground has paid, at least on the one time they lost a couple of tires I sent to a buyer. Seems like the driver, upon not seeing anyone home, forges the signature (they were supposed to get a signature) and leaves the tires on the front door step.

Owner gets home and they're not there (ripped off) while paperwork shows them delivered. I filed a claim on the behalf of the buyer and got his money back. Unfortunately, I didn't insure them to cover the cost of delivery so the buyer was out the shipping cost. I suppose it could have been worse.

USPS can lose items, but their claim process takes a long time. The items I've shipped domestically that were "lost" eventually showed up (so much for priority mailing). The items shipped internationally were delayed due to customs holding on to them for some reason. The claims I filed were eventually dropped due to late/delayed delivery.

Sherwood Lee
www.seinesystems.com
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

howie944 · 02-06-2003, 12:36 AM

Although not Porsche parts, A close friend of mine is quite well known for his custom cues (Richard Black). I ordered a cue for a friend. After many weeks of waiting for the cue to arrive (Richard only makes 100 a year) through the US Postal Service we opened the triangular box only to find the butt of the cue was broken in half. We filed a claim on behalf of Richard (interesting reaction when we told the clerk the cue was valued at over $1200). Richard replaced the broken cue in a matter of weeks. When I asked him about the settlement he advised me that they were pretty quick compensating him. This was quite a while back (about 15 years) don't know if they are as quick to settle now.

Porschedude · 02-06-2003, 05:52 AM

Does the USPS pay claims?

I bought a NEW DUAL MASS (NOS) flywheel from a guy many States away and had it insured and shipped via USPS Ground transportation. The package was 19 days in transit, which normally would take 7 –10 days at most. When the package arrived, my wife said the USPS worker had this horrid look on her face, and the package that was a cardboard box, looked more like a cardboard BAG! When I opened the box/bag, the packing peanuts were gone and the flywheel was damaged in three places. The raised lip around the flywheel face was broken.

Judging by the looks of the damage, I was thinking that maybe the USPS Truck had a flat and put my flywheel down as a spare! Most likely the heavy object met its fate by a over-worked “Ya Right” employee. More like over-something else…

Anyway, I filed a claim against USPS and the local claims official was very nice and efficient. The claim went back to St. Louis, Missouri for further review. After three or four weeks, I started making calls and they said they send paper work. Funny thing, they lost their own paper work in the mail! HAAAAH!

I finally wrote a letter to there in response to the investigation, with a little lawyer spin on it, explaining the facts. Bought it, insured it, shipped, damaged it, worthless, pay-up!

After reading the USPS regulations “Weasel Words”, they can twist there own meaning into whatever the claims review person wants.

A weird thing about the USPS, you can’t over-insure something. Lets say you got a good deal on an item, and the replacement value was higher than you paid, you can only collect on what you had in the item. It is not like an automobile where you can get a deal and insure it for the true value.

You can get a deal and have it desolve away by the folks at the USPS.

The replacement value I wanted on the package was the typical price one would pay for the flywheel at a discount from list ($1,000US). For an unknown reason the guy who shipped the package only put the value that I paid for the item ($500US).

What I received from the claim was the cost of shipping and the full insurance value placed on the item, but not the cost of the insurance. That makes sense.

All shippers MO’s are the same; they will take your money with a smile and try to dispute your claim with an attitude.

After this experience, I always over pack my shipments. I also document everything, conversations, date, time, who I spoke with, brief write up of the conversation.

One needs to be their own lawyer these days. I hope I don’t get sued by the Girls Scout who sold me the cookies. Maybe a back injury from the two boxes I bought?

Pack well and cross your fingers...

Keith

code7rpd · 03-22-2003, 10:40 PM

Just for info, FedEx just lost a suit for $1.7 million dollars . Apparently they damaged some computer equipment valued at about $17k. The package was insured and they would not pay the claim. The company sued them and was awarded 1.7 mil.

Raynald · 03-23-2003, 04:53 AM

Sorry for you Mike,
i hope you have your parts for the your engine in time...
because here the summer is short...
Ray

Dan Owens · 03-23-2003, 06:17 AM

Mike,

I'm in the distribution business and deal with carriers every day. Claims are a normal part of business and there is no benefit to carriers to not honor valid claims, that's what insurance is for. I'm not sure about you're specific situation but I can say with confidence that UPS and Fedex both pay claims on a regular basis and on a timely basis. I have found both UPS and FedEx fairly easy to file a claim with but you do have to supply info that they need to process the calim. They may balk at questionable claims as there are quite a few folks out there that ship broken item just to get a paid. I find it very interesting that 2 cams were cracked in half as that is quite difficult to do to 1 but two is very odd. I think that's probably why they are saying hey wait a minute here. I'd certainly contest the claim and also look to the packaging company to help support me in the claim if not the insurance coverage. You may also want to look at your home owners policy as many of those offer coverage for personal items lost or damaged away from home. Have the shipping company give you a written explanation of how they packaged the shipment and why they felt it was proper for the shipment and use that for the support for your claim. Also check and see what insurance they have as they performed the service in packaging the product for shipment and where paid for it.

Dan O
84' 3.2 Targa

bell · bell's Garage

it the past when i've shipped cams i've used PVC pipe with the cams wrapped in heavy paper inside and have never had a problem.
sorry to hear of this situation.
keep detailed records of every phone call and event, it'll come in handy should they not want to pay your claim.

Mike the mechanic · 03-23-2003, 06:30 AM

Guys, thanks for your concern. Raynald, I had to buy a set of billet cams, so hopefully FedEx will pay me soon!
Dan, I packaged the cams myself, in a box with lot's of bubble wrap, then placed the box into another, larger box with more bubble wrap. The package looked indestructible, i could have placed a carton of eggs in the box, and they wouldn't break if I dropped th box from 10 feet high.
When I found out that the cams were sent to the cam supplier broken, i called fedEx right away. They told me that they would go pickup the cams and do an investigation. The woman I sopke to gave me a claim number and told me that someone would be calling me back by the end of the week. Well, two weeks had passed, and no phone call. I called them up and they told me that there was no claim curently because i didn't fill out a claim form. I told the rep that I wasn't informed of this during the last conversation with another rep, and he had no reply for me. More wasted time basically. So, they faxed me a form, i filled it out, and waited another week. I called them up again, and I was told that this type of claim takes 4-6 weeks to clear up. I feel as though every time I call them, I get a different excuse. This is the first time i made a claim, so i don't know what to expect. It has now been over a month and a half since the claim.

Joeaksa · 03-23-2003, 07:03 AM

Hate to say this, but I have collected from both FedEx and UPS for damaged shipments. Gave them the damaged item and told them in no uncertain terms that "the hole that your people tore in the box" or "the smashed corner of the box" is not caused by "improper" packing.

Gotta have your ducks in a row and stand firm but have never had them beat me yet...

JoeA

sundaypunch · 03-23-2003, 07:15 AM

That stinks about the cams. I wouldn't give up on the claim. I've never made a claim w/ FedEx but have had good luck getting claims paid with UPS. They don't make it easy and you have to be meticulous with documentation and paperwork.

I know several people that have had bad experiences and claims are usually denied because of "improper packaging". Most people aren't aware of some of the details required (and usually enforced) by UPS. If you notice, in UPS shipping outlets they usually have a sign stating not to use packing peanuts. They can settle and easily escape from a small hole in a box. UPS usually will deny a claim if you use packing peanuts rather than bubble wrap. They also recommend using a new box and can deny a claim if the box was used, even if it looks to be in good condition.

This also is a good reason to pay for items by credit card. If you receive a broken item you can dispute the charge and make the seller (or provider of service) deal with making the claim. I bought a guitar which was destroyed by improper packaging on it's way to me. I got the "all claims are the responsibility of the buyer" routine from them until I told them I was calling Visa the next day. I got my money back (not sure whether they did on the claim).

Hindsight is 20/20 but bell has the right idea- pack items that will fit in a length of PVC pipe. You would be amazed at the amount of improperly packaged items that UPS sees with flimsy boxes, items moving around in the box, duct tape, old bar codes / address labels left on boxes, etc.