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Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom View Post
Think if you went to a "franchise" shop with your transmission issue, they test drive and make an informed assessment, then call the main overhaul shop, who then ship the reusable container to the franchise. Overhaul is completed, then shipped back to the "franchise". Cheap, not by any stretch, but still less expensive than the experiences of the last couple of guys posting on this site.
If everything goes well, that's great and sounds like the way to go.

However, when warranty issues and unfortunately but fact of life, disputes arise, how are they handled differently here with this
arrangement ? Serious question.

Apologies to the OP for the mini hijack.

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Old 07-12-2019, 11:22 AM
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Marc..i like that 3x..and again well said click click;-) all the knowledge will be gone one day, how sad;-( Most of the stuff i know is from my mentor who actually hired me back in 1985 into his shop, i had nothing, no tools no reco, just a diploma from a automotive school from eastern block ...during the years we spent weeks together buildings engines and working on 911s ,we even slept at the shop over the weekends...long story.......

I like Tony, what he does the with the engine rebuild class;-)

Ivan
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:14 PM
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My 915 (82 SC, 190k miles) had nasty first and second gears. After all the external stuff had been tried, 18 months ago I removed the unit and took it Auto Associates in Canton CT, close to me luckily and much respected. They - being both highly competent and honest - agreed to just fix what was wrong, not insist on a full rebuild; the box got 1 & 2 synchros, dog teeth and the 1-2 slider. It is now beautiful. Yes, it had always received good maintenance and had one careful owner before me, and yes, other 915's will need more stuff than mine did.

The tech who did the work was in his late 20's and had come from an M-B or Audi dealer IIRC and had been trained to do 915's by one of the old guys at AA before said old guy retired. Despite this being a shop that does both race and concours cars, the pricing was totally reasonable, less than $1500 (remember that I did the R&R). Good shops don't oversell or commit to stuff they don't understand. The OP may need to pull his car out of the current shop and find someone else to effect the needed repairs. John
Old 07-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom View Post
Could I disassemble a transmission, sure, can I read tooth contact patterns, dog teeth, ect? Less and less likely. When you add all the unwritten info that experience provides, it becomes more and more difficult, not impossible, to effectively rebuild your own transmission. Can it be done, absolutely, but I will never discount the collective knowledge of the guys who do this for a living. I prefer to drive and do the stuff I can and already know how to do. I have been to a bunch of factory level schools for specific aircraft/components, they give you a manual and you spend 2 weeks disassembling engines and accessory cases under the tutelage of the guys who wrote the book. When I took the Pratt & Whitney PT-6 course, the instructor had been with Pratt for 35 years.
Given the costs of the internal cost of gears and such, screw up and the price tag gets big really fast. I am risk averse when the cash pile can is at risk. When you look at the experience levels of guys like Grady Clay or Bruce Anderson, those guys had forgot more Porsche info than any 10 "specialty shops" combined.
I agree with this sort of wisdom, altho I never want to discourage owners and others from investing the time and effort to learn how to rebuild transmissions, etc. We all should worry that in some years time, there may not be people rebuilding transmissions for older cars, or for any car. Bruce and Grady are off to the next journey, Matt is no longer building transmissions, others of us ain't getting any younger... Certainly Porsche has gone to great lengths with their current policies and rules on tech literature to discourage people from even changing their own oil.

One other thing to consider when deciding on where to have a transmission rebuilt is whether the shop has all the parts needed to do the job, or is willing to wait for them to arrive. It's not just synchros, bearings, and seals that are needed. It's the shims, its the special tools, etc etc. And there are a bazillion other parts that sometimes need to be replaced to do the job right.

I have a transmission in the shop right now that failed for a customer midway through a race. This one's a 944 transmission, and he couldn't get it to shift. It had been rebuild by someone in the recent past. Finding the problem wasn't hard:





Yep, that's a tensioning spring stuck to the sump magnet, which (presumably) fell out of the shift control rod where it located the fork. I think the part costs 62 cents, and it should have been replaced: see how it's crushed. I keep a pile of them, and hundreds (conservatively) of other parts, in stock because you never know what you're going to need.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmax View Post
If everything goes well, that's great and sounds like the way to go.

However, when warranty issues and unfortunately but fact of life, disputes arise, how are they handled differently here with this
arrangement ? Serious question.

Apologies to the OP for the mini hijack.
Like any quality rebuilder, you fix it if it’s your fault. The R&R isn’t hard for a shop, and the shipping would be the cost of doing good business. I would have each trans have a main tech for oversight, and helpers for gruntwork/learning the tricks of the trade. In 10-15 years a competent 915 mechanic will be able to name his price. These gizmos aren’t Harry Potter grade things, but if you don’t have the right spells, they will bite back.
Heck, once a shop signed on to the program a shipping crate would be prepositioned.
The rebuild shop could offer a entry level basic training/intro program for mechanics and diagnostic purposes, and to insure trouble free reinstall.
It ain’t hard, just follow the best business model out there, and do a little bit more. Customers will flock to your door.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by proporsche View Post
Marc..i like that 3x..and again well said click click;-) all the knowledge will be gone one day, how sad;-( Most of the stuff i know is from my mentor who actually hired me back in 1985 into his shop, i had nothing, no tools no reco, just a diploma from a automotive school from eastern block ...during the years we spent weeks together buildings engines and working on 911s ,we even slept at the shop over the weekends...long story.......

I like Tony, what he does the with the engine rebuild class;-)

Ivan
I learned a minuscule amount of metal working knowledge from a chap named Ron Covell, his attention to detail made everyone in the shop crazy, but his cars won show after show. I have distorted thumbnails from his English wheel to this date. I still use tidbits he taught me to this day, 30 years later. And more than the tidbits, it was a way of thinking about fabricating. I used that way of thinking throughout my careers, as a mechanic and later as an airline Captain.
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1984 Carrera El Chupacabra
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"Easy, easy, this car is just the right amount of chitty"
"America is all about speed. Hot,nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
Old 07-12-2019, 06:36 PM
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My brother and I are going to be tearing into a spare 915 (the original out of his 83 targa) to do a refresh on it so I can put it in my car. The trans has around 200K on it. When we get into it, I'll make sure we post pics
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:07 AM
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Don't forget to put a WEVO bearing plate in it....
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:42 AM
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I read threads like this and can't help but shake my head a little bit. We are still a couple of decades from there being any dearth of knowledge around the trusty old 915 gearbox. There's really no cause for concern. I sell more 915 gears and LSDs than anything else I make, and I make parts for every old Porsche from 356 to the modern Cup Cars. In fact, sales of that stuff has gone up in the last 2 years as popularity of these cars as fun hot rods has gone up. I can recommend good 915 mechanics in almost every state in the union.

To Max's question, if the franchise shop is using one of the Porsche gearbox specialists we all talk about, like CMS or Bill Rader Motorsports, there's really nothing to worry about. Those shops stand behind their work and will whether or not a shop acted as your proxy on the job handling R&R and shipping for you. The one gearbox "specialist" you need to watch out for is Gbox. That guy doesn't stand behind his work, and that's true whether you ship him the box or your shop does. Just like most things in life, there's no one size fits all. The good builders stand behind the work and the bad builders don't.
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:09 AM
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I told my wife today that once this is all sorted I may sell the 911 in a few years in the hope that I don’t completely loose my butt on this darn car. Sadly it looks like prices are starting to stagnate. I want so badly to love my childhood hero car, but so far all I can think is I wish I had bought a Viper. I have a new appreciation for Corvette engineers.
Old 07-13-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post
I told my wife today that once this is all sorted I may sell the 911 in a few years in the hope that I don’t completely loose my butt on this darn car. Sadly it looks like prices are starting to stagnate. I want so badly to love my childhood hero car, but so far all I can think is I wish I had bought a Viper. I have a new appreciation for Corvette engineers.
Go buy and 80's Vette... then get back to us. Seriously man, I told you early on that if you weren't capable of doing the work on this car yourself that you weren't going to be very happy with it. I remember some of your early posts here. These aren't a low cost of ownership car unless you can do the work yourself. You either have the love... or you don't.
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:28 PM
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I went through similar things with cars over the years, try not to get too worked up. I assume you did your due diligence before buying, as many of us do, but even with a PPI there are no guarantees.
Not to sound $h##y about it, but its an old car, and in all likelihood, you were in for these repairs in the years to come, so think about in regards of getting all those issues done at once, and now you can enjoy your sorted car for years to come with regular maintenance being your main costs.
The "I hate this car" will wear off in time. None of can ever stay mad at our Pcars for long
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bixen View Post
Click Click, Well written posts. Thank you for your support and insight into our end of the repair world.
I think I'll refer to you as 3X!
Marc,
The more you know, you realize, how little, you truly know.
Enjoy
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"Easy, easy, this car is just the right amount of chitty"
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Old 07-13-2019, 09:45 PM
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Short story,
I had a customer who was having problems with metal(steel)in his oil samples. He asked me what I thought the problem was, I told him. Because the answer was expensive, he played 20 questions, I answered them all. He then said “oh hell what do you know, your just a mechanic”
I packed up my tools, he asked where I was going, I said “home”. He said “you haven’t even started, what am I gonna do with my plane” I said, ‘whatever you want” and left. He took it to a well known engine overhauler at K***and was promptly relieved of a wheelbarrow full of cash. The engine didn’t last either. The airplane world is small, like the car world.
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1984 Carrera El Chupacabra
1974 Toyota FJ40 Turbo Diesel
"Easy, easy, this car is just the right amount of chitty"
"America is all about speed. Hot,nasty, bad ass speed."
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936

Last edited by ClickClickBoom; 07-13-2019 at 10:02 PM..
Old 07-13-2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post
I told my wife today that once this is all sorted I may sell the 911 in a few years in the hope that I donít completely loose my butt on this darn car. Sadly it looks like prices are starting to stagnate. I want so badly to love my childhood hero car, but so far all I can think is I wish I had bought a Viper. I have a new appreciation for Corvette engineers.
Sorry to hear this, yes 10yrs ago you can get a gearbox rebuild for a fraction of the cost. Pcar parts and labor has gotten insane. Lots of folks balked on the 308 Ferrariís due to astronomical cost maintenance and mechanical repairs when the SC was new. We had 3 Pcars in the family back then. Now they they are inverses with 308ís being lower at a decent shop.

Who doing your car? Munks, Jeff in Novi? After you get back on the road donít look back in hindsight but enjoy the ride.
Old 07-14-2019, 09:03 AM
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but so far all I can think is I wish I had bought a Viper
Well, take solace in that you may be the first person to ever say this.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:25 AM
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The Car is with Jeff at Automotive Techniques, they came well recommended.

My intentions were to attend a local college's SAE cert program to make sure I have all the skills and confidence to work the Porsche over.

I don't know what I will do now, I love the car, but I am not sure how I will be able to enjoy driving the car knowing it's a ticking time bomb. I am looking at it know as more of an antique, old and delicate.

This does through any plans for making it fast out the window.

Maybe the engine will hold together long enough and I can just enjoy it as a Sunday driver for slow rides around the block and get some American power for fun day drives, or maybe i'll grow out of wanting to go fast.

I don't know, this whole thing has me all tied up, even though I knew the reality of owning an old Porsche it still stings and the payoff may not mend that.
Old 07-14-2019, 10:34 AM
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Looking at it as an old antique is probably the most sensible vantage point. 12-15yrs ago you can probably bring a suped up SC and keep up with the moderns on the track. They use to punch above there weight class. Not so much anymore, you will be driving with your rear view mirrors these days. The newer cars all nearly all fast these days and it’s a power struggle you won’t win anymore without building a full blown dedicated track car. I’ve tracked an early viper at willow springs, unless your jack Olson with his mods you won’t get close with a street prep sc.

The last pca track event I was at only had one Aircool running. Sad since they used to be by far the most popular pcar at the events. Everything had exponentially gotten more expensive which take the fun out of these cars to be truly used like they were in the past. That imo was what Porsche was known for that separated them from the other euro sportscars. Now you have to worry about breaking them


Disposable wedge pins for the strut inserts used to be a buck now 10-12$ each? A 2 foot mc brake line for $250 ? Hwy robbery, no wonder folks are trying to reuse or make them.

Last edited by panzerfaust; 07-14-2019 at 11:02 AM..
Old 07-14-2019, 10:56 AM
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Yea, part of the fun of a "fun" car is the use. I am starting to realize the brilliance behind cars like Vettes and Miatas, maybe they don't have the pedigree for the country clubers, but cheap and durable drivers make a whole lot of sense.

For 1/2 the cost of my Porsche I could have an indestructible Miata that is lighter and makes more power and a nearly stock engine (last forever). Certainly makes the practical side of me think.
Old 07-14-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post
Yea, part of the fun of a "fun" car is the use. I am starting to realize the brilliance behind cars like Vettes and Miatas, maybe they don't have the pedigree for the country clubers, but cheap and durable drivers make a whole lot of sense.

For 1/2 the cost of my Porsche I could have an indestructible Miata that is lighter and makes more power and a nearly stock engine (last forever). Certainly makes the practical side of me think.
Let's put some concrete numbers here.

At 1/2 the cost, that's say $20K for the other car you intend to use and basically use up. That's still a lot of money for most folks for a hobby car.

Hobby cars have never been practical in this sense, like hobby planes, boats or any of the other "toys" we indulge ourselves in.

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Old 07-14-2019, 11:31 AM
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