Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Long hood vs G body driving feel

For those who have driven or owned both - how different is the driving feel between these two eras?

Upon my research I've just read that the long hoods have a go-kart feel, but I've read the same thing regarding G-bodys.

As I'm in the market for a G-body 911, I've seen some 911Ts reach price points that are reasonable. However, I've never driven a long hood before.

I know engine swaps are easy between the two, but they do not share the same suspension components IIRC... How are parts availability on long hoods? Is it safe to assume that long hoods would be easier to work on in regards to a G-body since they are older/simpler?
Old 07-11-2019, 07:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Bill Verburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 23,392
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksluna View Post
For those who have driven or owned both - how different is the driving feel between these two eras?

Upon my research I've just read that the long hoods have a go-kart feel, but I've read the same thing regarding G-bodys.

As I'm in the market for a G-body 911, I've seen some 911Ts reach price points that are reasonable. However, I've never driven a long hood before.

I know engine swaps are easy between the two, but they do not share the same suspension components IIRC... How are parts availability on long hoods? Is it safe to assume that long hoods would be easier to work on in regards to a G-body since they are older/simpler?
The biggest difference comes from the higher polar moment that the '74 up cars have, change the bumpers to l/w f/g or carbon versions and the feel gets much closer to the early cars.

tires can make a difference too, especially at lower speeds, but put short & light 15" tires on a later car and it will perk it up considerably
__________________
Bill Verburg
'76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone)
| Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes |
Old 07-11-2019, 08:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
AG81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 527
Garage
I think they both have a visceral feel. As Bill has stated.... my lightened and high quality tire 88 coupe feels (to me) very much like the hot rodded long hoods I have driven.
__________________
Who are you? I'm the Guy!
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1009phr-1976-pontiac-trans-am/
Old 07-11-2019, 08:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Bland
 
RWebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
Posts: 43,126
Garage
also, overall heavier and many have wider tires (which alters steering feel)

'74 is one thing; stock '88 another end of the spectrum


parts availability is pretty good - spendy if you are building a concoursmobile; the '79 is a one year only model so parts are harder to come by


low buck way to go is (or used ot be; people may have figured this out by now) to buy a '74 and buy FG body parts to make it look like a LWB early car

rust tmts. were progressively applied over the years; IIRC a '77 should be fully galvanized

Last edited by RWebb; 07-11-2019 at 09:29 AM..
Old 07-11-2019, 09:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
cmcfaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,441
Garage
Send a message via AIM to cmcfaul Send a message via Yahoo to cmcfaul Send a message via Skype™ to cmcfaul
Long hood is so much more agile. Gbody is a heavy girl.
Long hood is much less refined, you feel everything. Long hood has an additional 1k to redline which is always nice.
On the track my 73 E was faster than any non turbo gbody.
Gbody is more reliable, better stereo, less maintenance.

Chris
73 e
89 Carrera
Old 07-11-2019, 12:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Bill Verburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 23,392
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcfaul View Post
Long hood is so much more agile. Gbody is a heavy girl.
Long hood is much less refined, you feel everything. Long hood has an additional 1k to redline which is always nice.
On the track my 73 E was faster than any non turbo gbody.
Gbody is more reliable, better stereo, less maintenance.

Chris
73 e
89 Carrera
While there was some weight gain from say '72 to '89, my experience is w/ a '72 and a '76 Carrera 3.0 all up weight differential for those 2 cars which I owned concurrently and drove back to back was less than 100#s about the same as a small girl.

when I sold it the '72 had Carrera fenders 7 & 8x15 Fuchs 215/60 & 235/55 x15 tires the '76 Carrera had the same wheels but 205/50 & 225/50 x15 tires,

yes the bigger wheels and tires on the '72 did make for heavier steering but mostly just at parking lot speeds, when the speeds were up the difference over the stock 6x15 & 185/70 was mostly just in grip levels

Stock the C3 was faster but did not turn as well as the '72, but when I installed the l/w f/g f/r bumpers it did turn every bit as well as the '72, but of course was much faster w/ ultimately even higher grip levels
__________________
Bill Verburg
'76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone)
| Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes |
Old 07-11-2019, 12:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 42
Put simply, they feel like very different cars (IMO). I own a 71T and an 84 Carrera and I switch between them every few weeks to keep them happy. The first 5 minutes after the switch is exciting, to say the least. Importantly, every switch reminds me of how special (and great) the 71T is. Every time. While my 84 is no slouch, it is far more refined that the 71T. This adds comfort but subtracts from the overall driving experience. Again, in my opinion.

That said, your intended use is an important factor. While some LHs have factory air, the creature comforts in the later cars are a big factor if the car will be anything other than a weekend driver. It should be noted that my 84 is my “daily”—although we have a third car that I rotate into often—and the 71T sees much less road time.

If you’re looking for a fun car to experience the “good ole days”—and they were good, trust me—go LH and never look back. The car is nimble, quick, reliable and drives like nothing else on the road. And, if you are so inclined, a built-out LH is one of the best driving experiences I’ve had.

Happy to weigh in further, if needed.
Old 07-11-2019, 02:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Bland
 
RWebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
Posts: 43,126
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksluna View Post
... Is it safe to assume that long hoods would be easier to work on in regards to a G-body since they are older/simpler?
I don't think we hit this question yet, so...

No - many early cars had MFI which is harder to work on than CIS (but MUCH more rewarding)

The 3.2L motors had EFI which needs little work and has better throttle response than CIS, but not the sewing machine at work sound of the MFI injection pump.

MFI is heavy tho - it is derived from a diesel tractor setup. I tried to weigh just the pump on a Post Office scale once and it overloaded the thing - it was late at night and no alarms went off....

As you surmised in your OP you can mix & match on these cars (mine is a mosaic of maybe 10 different years). Add in the aftermarket and you can do whatever your labor time & pocketbook will allow. e.g. you can add some refinement with digressively valved shocks

So, you need to think about which way you want to go, both in terms of what complete car you select, and what mods you do to it.
Old 07-11-2019, 03:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 25
Garage
Myami, I was wondering about the difference in the feel of the 901 and the 915 transmissions (I'm assuming your 71T has a 901). I have an 86 Carrera and the 915 transmission is decent but certainly not what I'd consider a racing transmission. Under low torque it shifts quickly but under heavy loads it is somewhat reluctant to come out of a gear and go into the next one. Is the 901 about the same or worse?

If you were going to build a long hood hot rod for spirited street driving would a professionally built 901 or 915 be sufficient or would you spend the money for a G50? I've only driven my stock 915 so I don't know what a well sorted 915 feels like. I just know mine leaves a little to be desired.
Old 07-11-2019, 05:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
M491Cabriolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Coast USA - Tysons, VA
Posts: 1,141
I’ve had many 911s, from longhoods through 997, and currently have a 1972 coupe and a 1974 Carrera coupe. I’ve only had one Targe, which added a whole other dynamic. In my own opinion, in a match between the LWB coupe vs the SC or Carrera G model coupe, the LWB wins every time. In a match between the LWB coupe vs the 1974 G model coupe - I hate to say it - but I think the 1974 wins.

Yes, the longhood is visceral and raw, but so is the 1974. The interface with, and feedback from the 1974 makes me feel more “one” with the car. I love the LWB, don’t get me wrong, but anyone who says the 1974 feels heavy may have an unconscious bias. I love both of mine equally, so I could never choose to sacrifice one over the other

BTW, I have original sport seats in both cars, and (sacrilege!), I actually like the later sport seats and fatty steering wheel better. The seat hugs me and the wheel is perfect for me. Again, makes me feel like the car is a part of me.

Again, these are only my opinions. It’s a question with an answer that is highly subjective,
Old 07-11-2019, 05:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Rodney Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 799
Garage
I've owned a few of each. And I know one thing for sure, you will not regret either decision. I loved the SC's that I've owned equally as much as the long hoods. And with each there have been some upgrades, that make each better.

My favorite long hood that I owned was my '72 911E with MFI updated with RS looks and my favorite SC was my '82 with SSIs / dual out Sport Muffler, LSD 915 with every upgrade you would do to an SC.

Both were awesome.

Right now I'm betting on a long hood '72 T with an upgraded engine... restoring from bare metal and I'm going to try to locate a good 3.0 with PMOs, SSIs, and Sport Muffler. This is most likely the best option, long hood looks and feel with SC power and engine reliability.

Good luck!
__________________
Rodney Nelson
Certified Porschephile
'82 SC (White) sold
'86 951 (Guards) Burned to Death
'71 911T (Orange) Sold
'72 911E (White) Sold
'86 951 (Black) Sold
'79 SC (White) Sold
'71 911 T (Green) Sold
Old 07-11-2019, 06:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
clutch-monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 843
I can’t tell the difference in the base chassis, both of mine are modified in different directions which makes more of a difference than which shell I started with.

I guess my point is that it doesn’t matter, get the one that is cheapest/in best condition and modify it to suit

Last edited by clutch-monkey; 07-11-2019 at 08:16 PM..
Old 07-11-2019, 07:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersignman View Post
Myami, I was wondering about the difference in the feel of the 901 and the 915 transmissions (I'm assuming your 71T has a 901). I have an 86 Carrera and the 915 transmission is decent but certainly not what I'd consider a racing transmission. Under low torque it shifts quickly but under heavy loads it is somewhat reluctant to come out of a gear and go into the next one. Is the 901 about the same or worse?

If you were going to build a long hood hot rod for spirited street driving would a professionally built 901 or 915 be sufficient or would you spend the money for a G50? I've only driven my stock 915 so I don't know what a well sorted 915 feels like. I just know mine leaves a little to be desired.
A great question/comparison.

First, allow me to disclaim that I am the second owner of my 71T and, remarkably, I don’t believe the transmission or clutch were addressed by the original owner. And even with that, my 901 is more rewarding, more engaging and frankly more fun to drive than my 915. Oh, and before it is asked, the 901 in my 71T is a 5-speed.

Elaborating on my prior post (which largely addressed the difference in “feel” between the two cars, from my perspective of course), the 901 transmission in my 71T acts as a constant reminder of which car I’m driving. The two transmissions do not feel the same to me. At all.

Points of comparison in response to your questions:
My 915 shifts like yours under load—stubborn. My 901 is smooth pretty much all the time.

My 901 is not without its quirks (engage 2nd or fake to 3rd in order to get into 1st).

My 915 feels “tighter” and more precise. Shifts on the 901 are long to the point of feeling tractor-ish and fairly vague (until you learn where the gears are).
With all of that said, between the 901 and 915, I think I would have a 915 in a hotrod/racecar. It just feels more sturdy and the 1/2 shift shouldn't be an issue on track. BUT, I would take a 901 for driving around town without question.

*braces for impact* Lastly, the G50 is my least favorite transmission. It feels too modern to be in an older feeling car like the G body. This is my opinion of course. I will defer to the experts though as it could very well be the best transmission for a hotrod/racecar based on its modern design, construction and materials. And it definitely does not have the typical PITA characteristics of the 915 . . .
Old 07-11-2019, 07:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myami View Post
Put simply, they feel like very different cars (IMO). I own a 71T and an 84 Carrera and I switch between them every few weeks to keep them happy. The first 5 minutes after the switch is exciting, to say the least. Importantly, every switch reminds me of how special (and great) the 71T is. Every time. While my 84 is no slouch, it is far more refined that the 71T. This adds comfort but subtracts from the overall driving experience. Again, in my opinion.

That said, your intended use is an important factor. While some LHs have factory air, the creature comforts in the later cars are a big factor if the car will be anything other than a weekend driver. It should be noted that my 84 is my “daily”—although we have a third car that I rotate into often—and the 71T sees much less road time.

If you’re looking for a fun car to experience the “good ole days”—and they were good, trust me—go LH and never look back. The car is nimble, quick, reliable and drives like nothing else on the road. And, if you are so inclined, a built-out LH is one of the best driving experiences I’ve had.

Happy to weigh in further, if needed.
Thank you for all the responses guys. Every time I post a thread out here, such great conversations spark from it. Whether it's a G body or a LH, it's a testament to this community that whatever car I choose, I know there will be a great community for these old cars. You simply cannot say the same for most other brands.

This puts me in the biggest first world problem! Primarily only searching for very well sorted G-bodys, I think I will add 72-73 911Ts to the mix, preferably ones with 915 and CIS...

My budget was originally 60-65K, and 911Ts I've found are still north of that, but who knows - maybe a deal will pop up. I have a daily driver of course and this car would only be driven on the weekends, but I do intend to DRIVE it!
Old 07-11-2019, 08:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Double posting but I will try to test drive a long hood car.

The reason why I didn't want a 964 or a 993 is because I wanted a raw, exhilarating driving experience. I read that the G body without power steering and ABS provides that and was able to test drive an 86 with a 915 (which I enjoyed, btw). That car felt like a go-kart. In my search for the most fun driving experience, I want to get out and find a LH 911 and compare the two
Old 07-11-2019, 08:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Been here a while
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: East coast, west coast, typ. 35,000 ft
Posts: 1,395
compared to anything modern, or even modern-ish, a 993 or 964 is still going to give you the raw, exhilarating, visceral, connected driving experience you desire. Even a 996, 997, Cayman or Boxster can do this to a more limited degree.

Clearly, a long-hood or impact bumper car will be even better.

I've owned many long-hoods and impact bumper cars, for impact bumper, you can almost emulate the connected feeling by losing some weight, as others have said....lighter bumpers, maybe a sunroof delete, lighter seats, eliminate the AC.

But, with that being said, there is more to it. When I get into my '72 long-hood, it presents a driving experience, even down to the materials in the interior, the smells, the sounds, that immediately puts a smile on my face. My 3.6 powered, lightened '83 SC is certainly no slouch, but doesn't give me the same experience.

I’ve had a few 78 and 79 SC’s that were lightly optioned, one even had no sunroof, and manual windows, these cars were more similar to the longhoods in terms of driving feel...especially after I did lightweight bumpers and door panels and seats. But still, the longhoods just feel different, better, lighter, more nimble.
__________________
Found a period correct hotrod motor, but still looking for 1972 911t motor, 6121622

Last edited by blucille; 07-12-2019 at 03:34 PM..
Old 07-12-2019, 12:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Bill Verburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 23,392
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucille View Post
compared to anything modern, or even modern-ish, a 993 or 964 is still going to give you the raw, exhilarating, visceral, connected driving experience you desire. Even a 996, 997, Cayman or Boxster can do this to a more limited degree.

Clearly, a long-hood or impact bumper car will be even better.

I've owned many long-hoods and impact bumper cars, for impact bumper, you can almost emulate the connected feeling by losing some weight, as others have said....lighter bumpers, maybe a sunroof delete, lighter seats, eliminate the AC.

But, with that being said, there is more to it. When I get into my '72 long-hood, it presents a driving experience, even down to the materials in the interior, the smells, the sounds, that immediately puts a smile on my face. My 3.6 powered, lightened '83 SC is certainly no slouch, but doesn't give me the same experience .
It's not set up right

Here are mine in order from least to most raw

Here's my '72



My '76

my'95
__________________
Bill Verburg
'76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone)
| Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes |
Old 07-12-2019, 12:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
skinnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR USA & Bangkok, Thailand 50/50
Posts: 2,572
Garage
A 74 or 75 should be pretty similar to the long hoods.
Had a friend with a 74 US Carrera and it was still a fairly light, responsive car.
Later G bodies really start to pack on the weight with power windows, etc.
__________________
"Are you out of your Vulcan mind?"

Doug
1973 RSR inspired genesis powr'd by dilithium crystals (3.6 RS Vram)
Old 07-12-2019, 03:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
M491Cabriolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Coast USA - Tysons, VA
Posts: 1,141
That’s right. My 1974 Carrera coupe and 1972 seem equally nimble and quick. They both float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
Old 07-12-2019, 05:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnerd View Post
A 74 or 75 should be pretty similar to the long hoods.
Had a friend with a 74 US Carrera and it was still a fairly light, responsive car.
Later G bodies really start to pack on the weight with power windows, etc.
Is it also the engine size/weight that makes the later G bodies not as nimble? Would a 74 with a 3.2 in it feel more similar to a long hood or a later G model?
Old 07-12-2019, 07:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:19 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.