UPDATED: What's your take on this? (Permatune)

[Wayne 962]

I'm not going to share my opinions or comments at this time, but I'm curious as to what everyone else thinks on this product:

http://www.perma-tune.com/New%20Kits/Porsche%20Kits/911CR%20kit.htm

-Wayne

[Vipergrün]

Hmmm, probably pass....if I had a Carrera

1. No track record established for a *new* product
2. Past track record of some Permatune products
3. no purple sparkplug wires
4. Most folks will probably want to stick to NKG or Bosch plugs

What is the *load placed on ECU* anyway?

[widebody911]

After my personal experiences with the PermaTune - and their "support" infrastructure, as well as reading similar accounts from others, including Bruce Anderson, I wouldn't so much as put PermaTune air in my tires. Not even if Pelican sold it

[911boost]

Thom isent you a pm did you get it?

[BGCarrera32]

"The Plasma Drive will increase performance while extending the life of the ECU."

So what? I would imagine the engineers at Bosch figured on this "load" from the coil when they designed the DME...

[Tim Walsh]

I don't see any reason to run this over the stock DME. Those sensors don't place that much of a load on the DME and the DME is a special purpose CPU it doesn't have a "load" like a normal CPU would.

If I had a carrera I would be skeptical unless I saw dyno runs or some sort of reliability data.

[emcon5]

Speaking as someone who has had a Permatune die on him, and had a brand-spanking-new Permatune loaned to me by my mechanic have a dead short in it, I would wait and see.

Wayne, did you see this? Comments?

Tom

[ADRNLN]

Hello, all--

What sort of experience has anyone had with other ignition upgrades, such as those by Jacobs or MSD?

~Steve

1987 Carrera Coupe

[Jim Sims]

It appears the coil has been replaced by two transformers crammed into the housing with the output operating voltage increased and ramp times decreased. I wonder about durability. Jim

[old_skul]

Dyno results, independent lab testing, blah blah blah.

If other owners said they worked and worked wonders I'd consider it if it were $400 or less.

[Superman]

Well, I hope the Permatune CD boxes are reliable, since I own one now. In talking to the Permatune guy recently, he said their ignition wires for our cars are the best you can find. He said you can swing from them.

[Wayne 962]

All reliability issues aside, I was wondering what the benefit of this unit could be. I was hoping someone else would come up with a reason I couldn't think of off the top of my head...

-Wayne

[pbs911]

He said you can swing from them.

Hopefully he didn't mean from your neck in the rafters after purchasing the system.

I would not consider this as a performance upgrade but as a replacement if my system went bad. Albeit, if there were positive independant dyno tests it may sway my opinion. I just don't see how merely increasing the spark will result in more HP compared to the OEM set up. If I wanted a performance upgrade I would go with a crank fire system. A little more $$, but it's proven.

[island911]

Plasma Drive - Clearly; the benifit is that this produces Plasma, where the others produce only spark.
(read: I'm not seeing it either.)

[CarreraCab]

Wayne, When these kits start promising Horsepower, and have no Dyno chart or track record, The meter goes up on the "Pucker-Factor".

[Hetmann]

I don't know what the hell they are talking about. No matter... I have an SC.

[Wayne 962]

Lonnie Lenarduzzi (CEO of Perma-Tune) called me yesterday regarding this post. Man, word travels fast on the Internet, and we must be getting more and more popular.

Anyways, I got the skivy on this product, which I'll detail in a moment. He wanted me to let everyone know (I told him to post it himself, but...) that Perma-Tune will stand behind the units that they manufacture:

"Perma-Tune will analyze any ignition ever made under the Perma-Tune name free of charge. Refer to our warranty for more info. Please ask customers to contact us for a reference number before sending their units in for testing.

Here is a link to our warranty.
http://www.perma-tune.com/Warranty.htm

Here is a link to our serial number code.
http://www.perma-tune.com/manufacture_date.htm"

I haven't personally heard bad stories about the Perma-Tune products (they were once even an OEM supplier to Porsche, as a replacement for the Bosch boxes - Tom's 1974 911 had one installed when new), and I haven't worked with too many of them either. From what I've heard they are a good replacement for the stock unit.

As for this new Plasma unit, Lonnie was telling me it's some new process for ignition that sends an electronic impulse to the plugs (you need to use their plugs with added surface area for maximum effect) that will move the air/fuel mixture into a plasma state before the spark is fired. This plasma state supposedly has a lower resistance and then will fire the spark much easier.

They have a white paper on their site:

http://www.perma-tune.com/White%20Paper.htm
http://www.perma-tune.com/Technical%20Support/Ignition%20Modules/Porsche/Porsche.htm

They are doing more tests right now to see how much this system improves engine performance. I don't think that they have any hard numbers on usage (no dyno tests). I suggested that they have an independent lab perform the tests.

Maybe they can split the costs with Zanick!



I don't know too much (actually I know nothing) about this new plasma ignition setup. Perhaps someone out there would be able to comment further on it?

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Oh, 972 442 6774 is the tech help phone line, direct.

service@perma-tune.com is the tech help e mail for Perma-Tune.

-Wayne

[Tim Walsh]

interesting. It looks like more research is needed but it might have potential if it burns as clean as they say. It certienly looks promising.

I'll have my chemist dad look at it and see what he thinks.

[ADRNLN]

Wayne--

After checking with Perma-Tune the other day, they mentioned they had a dyno test for the 2.7 and were working on a 3.2 test. I spoke with one of their installer/distributors who spoke quite favorably of the performance increase. It may not be earth-shattering, but it is said to make for more consistent and even combustion... This means better economy and lower emissions, if nothing else. But just as better gasoline makes for more power and smoother operation, I'd imagine better combustion would yield better performance, as well.

Of course, the next question is, "How much is it worth to me?" i.e. cost vs. performance increase ratio. But then again, we ask this every time we do any mod, right? Heck, a good mass air flow can cost between $1600-2000 and HP claims are all over the board, sometimes as little as 5 HP, but some folks still buy one. (Although I've also read claims of 30 HP on a 3.2 ... that sounds pretty amazzin'...)

~Steve