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964/993 Condenser - Rear Fender

TL: DR - has anyone done this?

Hi guys, I've read a number of threads (including the 10 plus page one) on mounting additional condensers to a pre-964 car. I currently have a factory system with Griffith's compressor and hoses, and a Zim's third condenser (mounts in front of rear driver side tire).

I would like to eliminate my deck lid condenser for various reasons (including replacement of deck lid for one that will accept and IC, eventually), and have investigated the possibility of adding the 964 condenser in the front driver wheel well (where the washer tank is).

I couldn't find a great option for moving the washer tank, and after reviewing the various rear mounted condenser threads, I thought I'd give the 964/993 model a try in the rear wheel well (next to the catalytic converter, or in my case, pre-muffler).

First impression is it appears that it will fit (albeit tightly) with a pusher fan. The condenser was $80 for a Behr Hella part on Amazon, and the fan was $30. I plan to mock it up this weekend, but am curious as to why it doesn't seem anyone has previously used this part (a Behr serpentine condenser made for a Porsche for under $100).

My thought was to try this approach first as opposed to going for the 930 condenser that is generally several hundred. Any tips, tricks, etc. (especially failures in mounting this part where I plan to) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Old 08-13-2019, 09:25 AM
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See posting #104 on page 6 and # 315 on page16 of my build thread for your possible solution.
Evolution of a Carrera RST
Hope this helps. Please note that I have replaced the Pro Cooler with the Khuel unit from Griffiths.
Hope this helps,
Johan
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:21 AM
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Uwon, thank you for the link. Very helpful and very cool build.

I did get my rear wheel off over the weekend and it looks like the 993/964 condenser will fit without any problems. For the record, I'm not sure whether there's any actual difference in the parts, but I went with the condenser listed as a replacement for a 993 (which also has part number beginning in 993).

Below are a couple photos of me holding it in place with a 10" pusher fan (which appears to fit it perfectly). In the photos, I'm holding it with the refrigerant channels parallel to the ground, though there's also plenty of clearance to mount it the other way (though I've previously read the channels "should be" parallel to the ground).

I'll hopefully be in a position to have it mounted this week then can move on to hose fabrication, which may be interesting considering my desire to eliminate the deck lid condenser.


Old 08-19-2019, 03:02 PM
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Not sure sucking in al that heat from teh exhaust, and being blow from the engine fan is a great idea. Keep in mine the decking condenser has basically ambient temp air on it once you start the car, since the engine fan sucks in and blows air down. I know its a tighter fit, but maybe try in front of the rear wheel? You are reducing the condenser area for the system I think by swapping out eh decklid condenser in favor of that one. Doing so combine with the exhaust heat might not help. That said my 89 has a decklid condenser and as long as I am moving the car has too much cooling for the A/C system.

On my Classic Retrofit I have a similar condenser setup but its in the front fender, and there is no chance of hot air. Just some thoughts.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:49 AM
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Thanks, Chris. Good thoughts, and the same ones I had initially. I've read quite a few threads on this board about the subject of the rear fender condensers, and this seems to be one of the preferred places for quite a few people, including the big name aftermarket producers (like Griffiths, though I'm sure he no doubt has a nicer finished product). I think the basic gist was at speed the exhaust heat doesn't matter as it's being pulled directly back from underneath the car, and at idle pusher fan mounted on the outside of the condenser can overcome the heat.

As far as surface area, two dimensionally there's no doubt the 993 condenser is smaller, but it is about 2.5X as deep and is a serpentine design as opposed to the stock 1983 fin and tube design. This is the first project on my path to turbocharging the car via a 930 induction system (including an intercooler), so the stock condenser has to go one way or the other. The factory 930 deck lid condenser is several hundred, so I figured I would try this first. If the results are subpar, I will probably revisit the removal and relocation of the washer tank and try the front driver side wheel well.
Old 08-20-2019, 12:19 PM
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That fit is nice. So $ 110 for that set up? Sweet. Do you have the Amazon link for the condenser? Have you thought about Enviro-Safe industrial R134 replacement? People that use it love it.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:46 PM
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Steve, yes, right around $110; sending PM
Old 08-20-2019, 07:17 PM
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Don't know that it will be a problem as I'm not familiar enough with the design of the 964 condenser, but a serpentine condenser is designed to have the zig-zag in the horizontal plane with the curve at each end, this promotes the progression of the oil in the system to move through the condenser to the outlet where it is carried out by the freon. if you place the condenser with the curves at the top and bottom you run the risk of having the oil pool at the bottom of each pass of the condenser, which will decrease the efficiency of the condenser and rob the system of oil in circulation. Whether or not you will see a problem in practice I don't know.
Old 08-21-2019, 10:14 AM
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Thanks, 76FJ55, I've read this also, and that's how I have it mocked up in the photos. If one were inclined though, there's room to flip it with the channels running perpendicular to the ground. I don't plan to do it that way as I have no need to (not sure why anyone would), but it is possible to do it either way.
Old 08-21-2019, 12:10 PM
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zigchuck, a few observations for your consideration-
(1) as Duc Hunter already pointed out, the condenser will be affected by heat from the exhaust. Just run your hand over the rear fender five minutes after shutting off the motor on a hot sunny day. I have to wonder how much additional time you will need on start up to cool down the condenser to make it effective again.
(2) it would seem natural to me that one would want to to have the condenser as close as possible to the evaporator.
(3) nothing can replace moving air at the front of the car for the condenser.
(4) you mentioned the eventual installation of an IC, which Ipresume would mean also a turbo and waste gate. Now you will have even more heat and the rear mounted condenser will likely be in the way of the waste gate.
(5) consider eliminating the in-fender washer fluid tank and hook up to the small intensive washer fluid tank by the brake fluid reservoir.
Cheers,
Johan
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Last edited by Uwon; 08-21-2019 at 07:21 PM.. Reason: Grammatical Correction
Old 08-21-2019, 01:27 PM
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Also consider you may want the turbo intake air pipe coming through the L Rear Fenderwell.



Just a thought for your future plans.

Len

Old 09-06-2019, 03:38 AM
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I have a 993 condenser in the rear wheel well and 1 in the front where the washer bottle used to go. I will take pics later today.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwon View Post
zigchuck, a few observations for your consideration-
(1) as Duc Hunter already pointed out, the condenser will be affected by heat from the exhaust. Just run your hand over the rear fender five minutes after shutting off the motor on a hot sunny day. I have to wonder how much additional time you will need on start up to cool down the condenser to make it effective again.
(2) it would seem natural to me that one would want to to have the condenser as close as possible to the evaporator.
(3) nothing can replace moving air at the front of the car for the condenser.
(4) you mentioned the eventual installation of an IC, which Ipresume would mean also a turbo and waste gate. Now you will have even more heat and the rear mounted condenser will likely be in the way of the waste gate.
(5) consider eliminating the in-fender washer fluid tank and hook up to the small intensive washer fluid tank by the brake fluid reservoir.
Cheers,
Johan

Maybe in theory, but not in reality.

I have the Griffiths system. Two extra condensers in the rear fender, on in front and one behind the tire. They have been there for 10 years. I also have the two stock condensers so 4 total condensers. My AC system kicks butt, and kept myself and my brother totally cool in south Florida heat and humidity in Key West, FL in July. Many times we parked and looked around in Key West. 30 minutes to an hour later, hop in, and have cold air inside of 60 seconds. Any absorbed heat is radiated away awfully fast if your theory is right.

After 10 years I have been in Needles, CA at 118 degrees, Savannah GA in August where my wife cot cold and asked me to turn the temperature UP, and in 40 states coast to coast. The AC simply works. Those two condensers have never show the slightest problem from engine heat.
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Old 09-06-2019, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH85Carrera View Post
Maybe in theory, but not in reality.

I have the Griffiths system. Two extra condensers in the rear fender, on in front and one behind the tire. They have been there for 10 years. I also have the two stock condensers so 4 total condensers. My AC system kicks butt......
And so it should. My RST has only two condensers, one in the front left fender and the other underneath the front slam panel, and I get the same results as you do. Heat and distance does matter!
Johan
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:36 AM
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Zigchuck, This setup as mentioned above is very effective in hot humid climates.








Griffiths evaporator core and all else sourced by Turbo Kraft - condensers, fans (Spal) wiring and custom hoses.
Old 09-07-2019, 06:13 PM
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