Replacing door speakers

[BlkBird]

I recently installed a new stereo in the car, a Nakamichi CD-45. Well, actually Atlporsche did, but that is another story. Once the unit was in place I decided to add an amplifier and, while modifying the wiring, discovered someone in the past had wired the rear speakers on each side together (ie. 4" full-range wired in parallel to 1" tweeter"). No cross over of any kind.

This led me to check the door speakers. My car has a full range 6" speaker and a "factory" (I think) 3" mid-range. The wiring looks to be straight from the factory. No after market kludging around. But no sign of a cross over either.

I plan on replacing the rear speakers with a "Diamond Audio M341" component setup (ie. separate tweeter and 4"). For the door speakers I was thinking of a Diamond Audio M361i (an integrated tweeter and main) and possibly disconnecting the factory 3" speakers if there is no cross over.

Questions:
1) What was the stock speaker set up?
2) Did the factory install a cross over for the door panel speakers?

[plain fan]

The rear setup seems strange for an 89 Turbo, but on my 78 SC the rears were wired for mono.
I thought that Porsche had a crossover for the door speakers. For some reason I remember seeing that they put the crossover in the door pocket on each door, might check there. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.

[BlkBird]

Grady et all,

In the door pocket? Only place I can see is under the door handle mechanism. But then again, I cannot even find the cursed wires going from door to passenger comparment.

Anyone else know if there is a cross over for the door speakers? And if so, where is it?

[TurboRuf]

BlkBird,

I also believe, for 89, the crossover is located under the door handle, in the door pocket area. You might want to simply remove the door pocket and check.

As for the 3” speaker on the door panel… are you sure that’s a mid? I believe it’s actually the factory tweeter for 89.

[BlkBird]

The 3" er could be the factory tweeter. It sure isn't putting out a lot of sound! So if the tweeter were disconnected and a full range speaker put into the 6" opening, would there be a problem with the crossover?

I am guessing theoretically the cross over wouldn't send any high frequency signals to the full range speaker regardless of what was (or was not) plugged into the "tweeter" space. So you would have a full range speaker getting only low frequency sound, and no high frequency at all if the tweeter were disconnected.

So if you want to put in a better quality full range speaker in the 6" opening, the cross over will have to come out. Right?

[Crachian]

How do you rate the Nak CD45?

[BlkBird]

Actually I like the Nak a lot. Try searching for a plain black radio face with minimal buttons and no disco lights. Most places that translates to a cheap radio with poor sound. Not with the Nak!

[tryan]

run some fresh wires and buy good speakers that will fit in the stock opening. when your ready to sell the car, plug up the old stuff to the stock wires and keep your stuff for the next one.

[TurboRuf]

BlkBird,

It sounds like you have the factory speakers in the front.

"The 3" er could be the factory tweeter."

I double checked... it is.

"So if the tweeter were disconnected and a full range speaker put into the 6" opening, would there be a problem with the crossover?"

Not if the crossover was bypassed.

"So if you want to put in a better quality full range speaker in the 6" opening, the cross over will have to come out. Right?"

Yes... but don't replace your factory separates with full range speakers. Separates are the choice of most professional installers for countless reasons.

[plain fan]

I echo TurboRuf's remarks. Keep the separates, even better you may want to check out new separate speakers, technology has really advanced since 89 in terms of car audio and speakers.
The crossover could be bypassed or your 3er could be blown. Some amps contain internal crossover functions which you could use to ditch the door mounted crossover.
You might check right below the door handle in the pocket area.

[BlkBird]

I am told the component speakers eat up Wattage. So while I am using an old amplifier I had lying around for a set of rear components, it sounds (pun) like I need a second amplifier for the front components. Or a four channel amplifier to replace my old two channel amp.

Which is what got me into this mess in the first place!

Fortunately the Nak has pre-amp outputs for both front and rear.

1) Any recommendations on a good 4 channel amp?
2) Are the Diamond Audio M361's a good choice for the door panels?

[Texas Turbo]

BB, I just installed a "system" (I think that is what the kids call it these days ) in my 930 so allow me to chime in as well.

1. TurboRuf and the others are right on. Get some component speakers. YES they are more expensive and eat more wattage but they are a step above a full range speaker. Run some fresh wire and you will be amazed at the sound quality. (assuming you buy speakers and an amp that are the same quality as your Nak head unit)

2. I just ran the crossover under the door handle where others have suggested the factory one might be. A pair of seperates will come with a crossover and will easily fit in the map pocket, well out of the way.

3. I am really partial to a/d/s amplifiers. They put out VERY clean power and 20 or 40 watts per channel are more than enough unless you are trying to destroy your hearing.

I hope this helps. Good luck

-TT

[TurboRuf]

I echo TT's amp recommendation, A/D/S is fantastic stuff and under-rated in terms of power. I have owned several A/D/S amps and have always been impressed with their quality and durability. I currently have a 6-channel A/D/S PH15 in my 930 and it sounds fantastic. You will definitely want at least a four channel amp for the setup you are talking about.

A really nice system in the 911/930 is a good set of separates up front, something ok in the rear, a good head unit, good 5-6 channel amp, crossover, and a nice sub. You get a lot of road/engine noise in the cabin, so good clean power is important. Realistically so is a sub of some nature, a good single 8” or 10” is more then sufficient. If you have a great pair of 6/12 separates up front, the sub isn’t mandatory if you are not picky about the lower frequencies (80Hz-20Hz).

I have heard good things about the Diamond Audio hardware but don’t have any experience with them. A/D/S and Boston Acoustics Pro series have always been my choice.

I use the rear speakers only as fill and I cut them off around 120Hz with a crossover (turned way down). In most cases rear speakers are worthless (unless you want surround and have a DVD player). How many times have you listened to a live concert looking in the opposite direction of the artist? My door speakers are cut off around 80Hz and I let the sub handle the rest of the lower frequencies. I am extremely happy with the quality, imaging, and accuracy of the system.

If you are just looking for a basic setup… go with a nice four channel amp and a good set of separates up front.

[BlkBird]

I am also limited by the space allowed for speakers, including a sub woofer, in a cabriolet. Nice thing about the Nak is that it does have a sub woofer output - but I don't know if I will use it.

I think I'll do this incrementally. I have the amplifier installed and a set of M341s (component speakers) on order for the rear. I'll hunt down the cross over in the doors and unplug the tweeters, allowing a straight through to the Blaupunkt full range speakers in the door now. I'll let the amplifier in the Nak drive the door speakers.

But I understand the Nak amplifier will not drive a component set on its own. So eventually, when I have the cash flow, I will upgrade the amp to a 4-way, install the M361 (6" component speaker) in the door, and hide the new cross overs where the stock cross over is located. Assuming of course the cross overs fit. Otherwise the cross overs will be under the passenger seat next to the 4 way amp, with two pair wires going to each door.

Sound like a valid plan?

[TurboRuf]

Yep, sounds like a good game plan.

Like I had mentioned before, try not to focus too much attention on your rear speakers. You would be better off switching you external amp to the front speakers and using the Nak’s build in amp for the rear. The rear speakers are so small, they really don’t need a lot of power.

So you currently have a set of coaxial Blaupunkt speakers in the front door?

As for the sub, you are correct… the 911 doesn’t have a lot of room, especially the cab. One option is to put a nice 8” in the front passenger foot well. There is plenty of space where the wooden floorboard sits.

Good luck on your project and enjoy!

[BlkBird]

TurboRuf,

Couple of points

- someone in the cars past installed component speakers in the rear. Well, not really component. A crappy 4" Clarion and a tweeter that were wired in parallel with no cross over. Yuck! This is why I am going to upgrade to component speakers with cross overs in the rear - I have to put something into the second tweeter opening if I take out what's there now.

- ditto the Blaupunkt full range speakers in the door panels. They were replacement for old deaders and matched the stereo that was in place (Blaupunkt Santa Monica). I'll leave them in place, powered by the Nak, and take the door mounted cross-overs out of the picture until I am ready to upgrade to a second component set up and a new 4-way amplifier.

- the subwoofer. my wooden floor is covering the alarm system. And to be honest, I've always found that subwoofers just vibrate screws and bolts loose throughout the car. I'll think I'll just pass on this option.

Where did you and T.T find your A/D/S amplifiers? Their 800 number is screwed up - called ADS and ended up at Circuit City. Who carries the A/D/S line?

[TurboRuf]

Found my a/d/s amps on ebay.