Ideal brake upgrade for 911sc

[ARCSinAK]

Greetings Members-

I wanted to inquire about your experience with various brake upgrades for a 911SC. I have a deep rooted speed addiction, as I imagine many of your can relate to. I'm 40 my Dad had a 78sc when I knew him, post Vietnam, since that period 1970's, I have wanted a 911. I am fortunate enough to now have one in the garage. Spent my childhood racing racing Downhill, mountain bikes, motor cycles ect. I may be a neophyte behind a 911 but I have a long history with analyzing the limits of grip, trajectory, fast lines. Forgive desertion, bottom line is I have 12k invested in a well maintained, SSI, basic upgraded SC. My goal is to one day have a stock looking SC with 7 and 9's hiding another 12 K in a 3.6 tuned motor, flexible street suspension and deadly braking power.

Should I say or go??

Regards-
Jed

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by ARCSinAK

Greetings Members-

I wanted to inquire about your experience with various brake upgrades for a 911SC. I have a deep rooted speed addiction, as I imagine many of your can relate to. I'm 40 my Dad had a 78sc when I knew him, post Vietnam, since that period 1970's, I have wanted a 911. I am fortunate enough to now have one in the garage. Spent my childhood racing racing Downhill, mountain bikes, motor cycles ect. I may be a neophyte behind a 911 but I have a long history with analyzing the limits of grip, trajectory, fast lines. Forgive desertion, bottom line is I have 12k invested in a well maintained, SSI, basic upgraded SC. My goal is to one day have a stock looking SC with 7 and 9's hiding another 12 K in a 3.6 tuned motor, flexible street suspension and deadly braking power.

Should I say or go??

Regards-
Jed

for street use the stock setup is fine, racers can even manage w/ it but it takes a lot of skill and practice because the system can be stressed beyond reasonable temperature limits w/ repeated hard use. Just be sure to have great brake fluid and pads appropriate to the application and try to cool the rotors, particularly the fronts, as much as possible

there are 2 excellent currently available choices
1) put a set of '78 -81 930 brakes on the car, '81 up is the same except for front rotors which can't be used on a n/b car
2)Brembo GTP-L

neither is cheap, there are some other possibilities too but all of themthat I can think of suffer from 1 or more issues

[AlfonsoR]

I read where someone, can't remember who, recommend TRE motorsports BoxterS brakes:

911 / early 930 turbo Kits

I haven't seen any reviews on these, though you might try to search here or on Rennlist.

[GaryR]

Just listen to what Bill V. tells you and you won't go wrong.

[Gunter]

What is "Flexible suspension"?

Until the 3.6 dream comes true, do a serious rebuild on the stock SC brakes; they work fine.

Caliper-rebuild, new rotors and pads along with correct Servo-assist gives "deadly braking power".

Somehow, I cannot envision much speeding on Kauai.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by AlfonsoR

I read where someone, can't remember who, recommend TRE motorsports BoxterS brakes:

911 / early 930 turbo Kits

I haven't seen any reviews on these, though you might try to search here or on Rennlist.

If you could fit Boxster S or Cayman S brakes all around w/ appropriate rotors then that would be great, however i've never seen it done.

the more usual Boxster brakes on 3.2 Carrera rotors isn't really much of an upgrade as it only slightly addresses the heat issue that is inherent in 911s that see severe brake usage.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

If you could fit Boxster S or Cayman S brakes all around w/ appropriate rotors then that would be great, however i've never seen it done.

the more usual Boxster brakes on 3.2 Carrera rotors isn't really much of an upgrade as it only slightly addresses the heat issue that is inherent in 911s that see severe brake usage.

Only real advantage (I think) that comes out of the Boxster upgrade I have on my project car (it came with them) is the weight reduction between the stock calipers and the alloy Boxster calipers. They use the Carerra rotors and are only marginally larger than the stock SC brakes. I agree with Bill, unless you just want to spend $$ rebuild or replace your stock calipers, put new rubber lines on (yes, I use Porsche stock rubber lines), use an aggressive pad, and flush your system and fill it with a 600F (Dry) brake fluid like Motul 600, Castrol SRF, or Brembo.

[ARCSinAK]

Thank you to all for your time and input. I appreciate it. Gunter, hopefully my terminology will not retard your comments I'll work on it. I own a Factory works KTM 590 SMR super moto so speeding on Kauai is a reality for me at times, fastest power to weight ratio machine I have even encountered it has "deadly" brembo calipers with a 13" rotor One finger 80-0, it offers a margine of public safety, just wanted to have the best stopping power possible for the 911sc.

Take it to the limit one more time.

JS

[don911]

I have the 930 brake set up that Bill mentioned above. It's a great set up and allows wheel options from 15" fuchs on up.

[sailchef]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Somehow, I cannot envision much speeding on Kauai.

LOL

Reminds me of the time I was riding my bicycle along King Kamehameha Highway on the Big Island when I spotted a car 100 ft out into the lava fields and wondered how the heck it got there.

[rs6er]

Originally Posted by ARCSinAK

Thank you to all for your time and input. I appreciate it. Gunter, hopefully my terminology will not retard your comments I'll work on it. I own a Factory works KTM 590 SMR super moto so speeding on Kauai is a reality for me at times, fastest power to weight ratio machine I have even encountered it has "deadly" brembo calipers with a 13" rotor One finger 80-0, it offers a margine of public safety, just wanted to have the best stopping power possible for the 911sc.

Take it to the limit one more time.

JS

It would be easier to follow your comments if you would insert a period now and then.

[porschenut]

Don't forget, brakes don't stop a vehicle....tires do. If you want to stop faster, I would recommend stickier rubber as your stock SC brakes are already excellent.

[lab racer]

How about an entirely different brake package?

I have as 1980 911 SC which I am doing a full restoration of the front and rear suspension and brakes.

It will used primarily on the street, but will see occasional track usage.

I was originally going to go to an aluminum caliper for weight savings, but I don't see a package that saves much weight.

Could the front stock ATE A calipers be split and a larger spacer be made to allow the use of a 28mm front rotor with the stock (282 mm rotor)
The front spindle(or the caliper bracket) would need to be machined to center the rotor between the caliper.

Rotor choice, a 964 front machined down to 282mm diameter or the 1986 944t rotor.

Similar conversion in the rear with a wider spacer for the 24mm carerra 3.2 rotor.

Does anyone make a kit that would do this?

[chrismorse]

Stock brakes stop the car about as fast as upgraded brakes, until you really push it harder, put stickier, wider tires on, or significantly up the power of the engine.
As Bill has said the problem is getting rid of the heat in the rotors, or you are going to boil the brake fluid, (scarymushy pedal),or fade the pads, (hard pedal, white knuckle death grip on the wheel, while you are trying to push your back through the seat with Herculean leg press).
Speed X mass = heat. If you don't get rid of it and maintain "reasonable" disc and pad temps, you are going to have variable, that is inconsistent braking - and likely very expensive brake component costs.
Calipers don't disipate any heat compared to the rotors. If a stock caliper could be run on a significantly more capable, (larger diameter, thicker, curved vane or modern Sphericone constructed rotor, you wouldn't need the big calipers). The bigger calipers do help with bigger, longer lasting pads, but the important work is done by the rotor.
Just like the engine, if operating temps are high, things are going to wear out a. Lot more quickly.
In a parallel universe, Ferrari tracking, they have the exact same problem with stock 308, 328, 348 and even 360 brakes as we do, until you get into the uber class with giant Brembos and or carbon brakes. In every one of those Ferrari forums, guys were talking about fade, short pad and rotor life.
Some say that big brakes are over rated, but if you put sticky tires on the car and really flog it, or crank up the power, you really need to get rid of the heat.
So, if you put C brakes on a stripped, pumped speedster, S vented brakes on a 175 hp 914, or 14 inch discs with F 50 calipers on a tired old 308,

what do you get?

Dead linear stopping, c ontrollable, temperature stable," Handof God" braking that doesn't need much maintenance because things don't get too hot.

SLOWING down for another beer
:-)
chris

[Superman]

Originally Posted by GaryR

Just listen to what Bill V. tells you and you won't go wrong.

This.

[juanbenae]

find a used set of the larger 24mm Carrera front calipers (SC are 20mm), rebuild them, install the wider rotors on your hubs, place new brake lines, bleed the entire system, check your wheel bearings out and enjoy having your brake upgrade itch scratched for a while for less than $300. you can use the existing master cylinder as it is the same caliper with a spacer affording the wider, more effectively cooled rotors. win when.!!


if you want something that looks bright between the fuch paddles I got little for ya... all in all SC brakes are pretty good as is.

[HaroldMHedge]

A cheap upgrade that works is the 993 Air Deflectors and blocking plates (Porsche Rothsport Front Brake Rotor Air Deflector Plates).

Theses worked for me along with learning how to brake for my SC at Sepang International Circuit but this was a ROW SC with 15/8" European Racing headers not a 3.6.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by lab racer

How about an entirely different brake package?

I have as 1980 911 SC which I am doing a full restoration of the front and rear suspension and brakes.

It will used primarily on the street, but will see occasional track usage.

I was originally going to go to an aluminum caliper for weight savings, but I don't see a package that saves much weight.

Could the front stock ATE A calipers be split and a larger spacer be made to allow the use of a 28mm front rotor with the stock (282 mm rotor)
The front spindle(or the caliper bracket) would need to be machined to center the rotor between the caliper.

Rotor choice, a 964 front machined down to 282mm diameter or the 1986 944t rotor.

Similar conversion in the rear with a wider spacer for the 24mm carerra 3.2 rotor.

Does anyone make a kit that would do this?

VCI do a kit to fit 951 (aka 944 turbo) 299x28mm rotors and calipers to the front & rear of 911s; not cheap - but they do it right, and it - and they - are very well-regarded.

930 brakes still very desirable in many ways; however they weren't cheap or readily available 10 years ago, and less so now... Plus you have to faff with rotors/hats etc.

Bill said:

If you could fit Boxster S or Cayman S brakes all around w/ appropriate rotors then that would be great, however i've never seen it done.

Since he wrote that 9 years ago(!), plenty of folks have used the Instant-G kit to fit 996 N/A (aka Boxster S) or 996TT calipers/rotors. Very different animal to base Boxster calipers over Carrera rotors.

Aside from cost and front bias, these are great; cheap pads/rotors, hand of god stopping power, zero maintenance apart from annual fluid change... Dual masters fix the bias issue.

"Street and occasional track"? With 300HP or less, just upgrade fronts to 3.2 rotors/calipers & spend some of the (substantial) savings on driver training.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by lab racer

How about an entirely different brake package?

I have as 1980 911 SC which I am doing a full restoration of the front and rear suspension and brakes.

It will used primarily on the street, but will see occasional track usage.

I was originally going to go to an aluminum caliper for weight savings, but I don't see a package that saves much weight.

Could the front stock ATE A calipers be split and a larger spacer be made to allow the use of a 28mm front rotor with the stock (282 mm rotor)
The front spindle(or the caliper bracket) would need to be machined to center the rotor between the caliper.

Rotor choice, a 964 front machined down to 282mm diameter or the 1986 944t rotor.

Similar conversion in the rear with a wider spacer for the 24mm carerra 3.2 rotor.

Does anyone make a kit that would do this?

I understand the feeling of wanting to modify but the brakes that came on the SC are MORE than adequate, especially when you simply get a better pad and fluid. Send your calipers to our resident expert and have them rebuilt/replated, toss in some aggressive pads and fresh rotors, and spend all that money somewhere else.. I ran a 2:13.x on Watkins Glen, 1:00.x at Limerock with a stock motor SC and stock brakes (with Performance Friction pads and high temp fluid), NEVER had a brake issue with that car.. ever. You going to push harder than that?

[James Brown]

When i purchased my SC i looked at the brakes and shrugged. But after hanging pads and new SC rotors, i could lock all 4 brakes up in a nano second at any speed as long as they're cool, Tracking is a different beast. Daily driver there great!
Get some of them plastic Brembo covers in red for the car shows and you're set.