squeak sqwonk

[tirwin]

Wanted to solicit some input from others to try to isolate the source of this rear suspension squeak. Take a listen...

It sounds like a clunk on my iPhone but it is definitely more of a squeak in person and when I listen from my computer. It seems to be a little worse when I push down on the driver side, but definitely happens on both sides.



For those of you who have experienced squeaky polybronze bearings, is this the typical sound they make? Or do you think this is something different?

I'm going to grease them again with the car up on the lift in hopes that having the weight off the bearings will help spread the grease more evenly.

The other possibility is that I still don't have enough lateral play in the spring plate covers.

Or could I be barking up the wrong tree entirely?

It's not something that suddenly developed... I just haven't had time to work on it and it is annoying.

[2jmotorsports]

Not sure what specific parts are squeaking but that is a 2-part squeak where 2 mating surfaces initially slide but quickly stick due to friction, then the force from your knee overcomes that initial friction and breaks it free to squeak some more through the rest of its range of travel.

I wonder if there is a lube you could quickly spray into various joints one at a time, cycle the suspension, and see what changes the sound, to narrow it down.

[tirwin]

Jose, that description is very good!

These are the Elephant Racing polybronze rear bushings. Bilstein struts were re-valved a while back. 28mm torsion bars in the rear.

I suspect the spring plate cover is too tight and that the sound is the inner and outer race binding. I'll upload a picture in a sec. Chuck's instructions on this are pretty clear so if that's what it is, it's operator error on my end.

The bushings have a zirc fitting to grease them. Normal schedule is every 3k miles or once a year. Seems like I can make it better, but never completely eliminated.

[Schwarzhorse]

Have you checked :

a.) the rubber at the bottom of the rear shock absorbers which the attachment bolts pass thru
b.) the rubberized foam donuts that the piston rods of the rear shock absorbers pass thru up top where they install into the body
c.) the rubber/rubberized foam bushings at the rear shock tops within the engine compartment
d.) the rear sway/stabilizer bar rubber bushings at both their 2 bracketed hang points and their ends
e.) the tightness of the rear shock mounting bolts and nuts
f.) the tightness of the rear sway/stabilizer bar bracket hangers and end mounts ?

[tirwin]

Here's a pic of the ER bushings.



There is an inner and outer race on each side of the spring plate.

[Bill Douglas]

Has the rubber fallen out of the drop links?

Very weird.

[tirwin]

Good questions. Worthy of double-checking. Answers in bold red below.

Originally Posted by Schwarzhorse

Have you checked :

a.) the rubber at the bottom of the rear shock absorbers which the attachment bolts pass thru

They were replaced with struts were re-valved.

b.) the rubberized foam donuts that the piston rods of the rear shock absorbers pass thru up top where they install into the body

Installed new when struts replaced.

c.) the rubber/rubberized foam bushings at the rear shock tops within the engine compartment

Installed new when struts replaced.

d.) the rear sway/stabilizer bar rubber bushings at both their 2 bracketed hang points and their ends

They are new. No change when sway bar is removed. It's been a while since I did this but it could be that the sound is more present on one side when sway bar is removed. Can't swear to it though. I might try that this week.

e.) the tightness of the rear shock mounting bolts and nuts

I can double check. Right side may be hard to get to.

f.) the tightness of the rear sway/stabilizer bar bracket hangers and end mounts ?

No problem there. If I remove the sway bar for further testing I will of course verify upon re-installation.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Has the rubber fallen out of the drop links?

Very weird.

Nope. New adjustable drop links were installed a couple of years ago when the car was last corner balanced.

[NYNick]

When we were searching for a squeak, the only way we eventually found it was by putting it on a ramp lift, getting up on the lift with the car and pushing down on the car while the other person was under it trying to find the squeak.

It my case it was the sway bar bushings needing grease. Yours sounds way worse than that.

[scottrx7tt]

i have a lot of squeaking problems out of my elephant racing polybronze bushings also. I installed them because i wanted to eliminate the squeak i had with poly bushings that i had installed before. BTW, i have sway-a-way adjustable spring plates also.

[Trackrash]

You may want to use a hose, with one end held to your ear, to isolate the squeak while someone else pushes down on the car. I bet it is the poly bronze bushing BTW.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by NYNick

When we were searching for a squeak, the only way we eventually found it was by putting it on a ramp lift, getting up on the lift with the car and pushing down on the car while the other person was under it trying to find the squeak.

Good idea. I have a couple of options there.

Originally Posted by NYNick

It my case it was the sway bar bushings needing grease. Yours sounds way worse than that.

That is one thing I had not thought about. I just tried hitting those bushings with silicone grease. Didn't seem to do anything. But while I was looking at them, I started to think I don't like the way the bushings look. They sort of look like they may have been overtightened.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Step 1. Get the car up on my QuickJacks to get the weight off the spring plate bushings and re-grease them.

Step 2. Remove the sway bar and put the car back on the ground. That way I can see if the problem follows the sway bar or if the squeak isolates to one side without it. Re-grease the sway bar bushing and re-assemble.

Step 3. If that doesn't do it, put it on a 4-post lift and try to isolate where the sound is coming from.

Couple of thoughts...

1) Not sure how much I can do to check the struts with the engine in place.

2) Thinking out loud... if I need additional spacers in the spring plate covers, I guess it's possible to loosen the bolts enough that I could take one out completely at a time and slip in additional spacers? This is one of those things you think you did right way back when you first did the job but as time passes you start to second-guess yourself.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by scottrx7tt

i have a lot of squeaking problems out of my elephant racing polybronze bushings also. I installed them because i wanted to eliminate the squeak i had with poly bushings that i had installed before. BTW, i have sway-a-way adjustable spring plates also.

Thanks. I feel pretty confident that the squeak can be fixed for good -- I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong. It is probably operator error on my part.

I had the car at Goldcrest Motorsports back in the summer to recover/recharge the R134a so I could swap a bad hi/lo switch and I talked to them about it then.

They do a lot of the work on Leh Keen's safari cars and they use the ER PB on all those builds. One of the guys said they are using some grease that is used on fly fishing reels and it has totally eliminated any squeak. I asked what the name was but it seems the answer only comes with a payment for service. I'll be sure to let you all know if I can figure out what it is.

I have the SAW ASPs too.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

You may want to use a hose, with one end held to your ear, to isolate the squeak while someone else pushes down on the car. I bet it is the poly bronze bushing BTW.

I think so too. I was just hoping someone who has experienced that sound could tell me conclusively if that is what it sounds like or if I might have something else going on.

[Bill Douglas]

It seems soft suspension. My SC couldn't move down that easily - hopefully that is another clue to throw into the pool of clues.

Broken mount for the anti sway bar?

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

It seems soft suspension. My SC couldn't move down that easily - hopefully that is another clue to throw into the pool of clues.

Broken mount for the anti sway bar?

If you think that's soft, you should've seen the car BEFORE. I could do the same thing and it would shake like it was twerking.

What size t-bars do you run?

The original struts were sent off to Chuck @ ER to get re-valved on a digressive curve and to match the spring rate of the t-bars.

[NYNick]

Forget "fixing" stuff until you know what the problem is. Since you have a Quickjack, maybe you could put the car up on the QJ and then put a floor jack underneath a tire and use a 2x4 under the tire to compress the suspension up and down while you or someone else listens under the car.

Make sure you put Floor Jacks under the car as well. I always do that also, even when using my Qucikjack.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by tirwin

What size t-bars do you run?

Don't know. Ordinary factory I guess, and green bilsteins as shocks.

[Bill Douglas]

I've just tried my car and yes it only moves about half that amount. Mind you it doesn't account for the sqwonk.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Forget "fixing" stuff until you know what the problem is. Since you have a Quickjack, maybe you could put the car up on the QJ and then put a floor jack underneath a tire and use a 2x4 under the tire to compress the suspension up and down while you or someone else listens under the car.

Make sure you put Floor Jacks under the car as well. I always do that also, even when using my Qucikjack.

Not sure what you mean about "fixing". It's time to grease the bushings so I was just going to do that and see if the sway had anything to do with it. I will need a helper to see if we can isolate the squeak source.