brake flush/line replacement newbie questions

[toddetch]

Hi all,

Getting the car ('80 Targa) ready for the autocross season, possibly an HDPE event, and of course, just regular summer driving so I am going to bleed the brakes and replace the brake fluid. This will be my first time to do any real brake work and I've been reading up on it, but I have a few newbie questions. I am about to buy a Motive Power Bleeder and I've already ordered the Speed Bleeders.

1. When I first bought the car three years ago, the brake lines were replaced with new rubber lines. Given that they are only three years old, I'm thinking I don't need to replace them with stainless steel lines, but I'm wondering if the performance gain is worth the effort. Thoughts?

2. Has anyone used the Speed Bleeders? If so, do you need to fully drain the fluid before removing the old bleeders? Their instructions don't tell you to do so, but it seems like fluid would come out when you remove the bleeders. Maybe not if you are not pressing on the brake and don't have the system pressurized with the Motive?

3. Okay, now I feel this question is really dumb...but I've seen the suggestions about using different colors of brake fluid to make it easy to tell when the old stuff is out. However, I don't see anything that indicates the color of the fluid on the packaging. (Admittedly I've only been looking online - I haven't driven to the local auto shop yet).

Thanks for helping with my newbie questions...and wish me luck!

Todd

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by toddetch

Hi all,

Getting the car ('80 Targa) ready for the autocross season, possibly an HDPE event, and of course, just regular summer driving so I am going to bleed the brakes and replace the brake fluid. This will be my first time to do any real brake work and I've been reading up on it, but I have a few newbie questions. I am about to buy a Motive Power Bleeder and I've already ordered the Speed Bleeders.

1. When I first bought the car three years ago, the brake lines were replaced with new rubber lines. Given that they are only three years old, I'm thinking I don't need to replace them with stainless steel lines, but I'm wondering if the performance gain is worth the effort. Thoughts?

If you like to spend money for no apparent purpose and to make your car look cool, replace your perfectly good rubber lines with SS. Unless your name is Andretti, Long, etc, I doubt you will notice any difference.

2. Has anyone used the Speed Bleeders? If so, do you need to fully drain the fluid before removing the old bleeders? Their instructions don't tell you to do so, but it seems like fluid would come out when you remove the bleeders. Maybe not if you are not pressing on the brake and don't have the system pressurized with the Motive?

I will defer to others as I do not have them. IMHO, If you are using a motive (pressure bleeder), speed bleeders do not add much to the party.

3. Okay, now I feel this question is really dumb...but I've seen the suggestions about using different colors of brake fluid to make it easy to tell when the old stuff is out. However, I don't see anything that indicates the color of the fluid on the packaging. (Admittedly I've only been looking online - I haven't driven to the local auto shop yet).

Not a dumb question. In the past, your could get blue and gold versions of ATE DOT 4 fluid. This is no longer true.

Assuming your brake system capacity is similar to mine, I find that if I flush about 180 ml out of each caliper, there is clean fluid every where (confirmed this when I was able to get blue and gold fluid back in the day).

Thanks for helping with my newbie questions...and wish me luck!

Todd

Not hard, just tedious. I do this every year for AX and HPDE.

[Trackrash]

Here is what I do.

With the car on jack stands and the wheels off.

I put a stick between the seat and brake pedal, holding it down slightly. That prevents fluid from going back into the reservoir.

I then open one of the bleeders and use a large water pump pliers to push the pads as far back as they will go. Then close the bleeder valve. Repeat on all wheels.

I then use a baster to remove all the fluid from the reservoir. Clean the reservoir as needed and then fill with new fluid.

Release the stick from the pedal.

Pump the pedal until firm.

Attach my pressure bleeder and bleed the brakes until fresh fluid runs out, keeping an eye on the master reservoir.

I was told by an old German guy, yea I know, that exorcising the brake cylinders when bleeding will help keep the calipers in good order. I have found this to be true.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Here is what I do.

With the car on jack stands and the wheels off.

I put a stick between the seat and brake pedal, holding it down slightly. That prevents fluid from going back into the reservoir.

I then open one of the bleeders and use a large water pump pliers to push the pads as far back as they will go. Then close the bleeder valve. Repeat on all wheels.

I then use a baster to remove all the fluid from the reservoir. Clean the reservoir as needed and then fill with new fluid.

Release the stick from the pedal.

Pump the pedal until firm.

Attach my pressure bleeder and bleed the brakes until fresh fluid runs out, keeping an eye on the master reservoir.

I was told by an old German guy, yea I know, that exorcising the brake cylinders when bleeding will help keep the calipers in good order. I have found this to be true.

A lot more complex than what I do.

I remove the old fluid from the master cylinder with a turkey baster and refill with fresh fluid.

I jack up the rear left wheel, remove the tire and attach a small hose to the bleeder nut. Put the other end in a bottle. I attach my dry motive bleeder to the reservoir and pump to 10 psi. I crack the bleeder screw and let the fluid flow out (about 180 ml). Close the bleeder screw.

Reinstall the wheel.

Disconnect the Motive bleeder and refill reservoir.

Repeat for each caliper.

I have done this annually for my car for 20 years. I still have the same master cylinder and brake calipers that were there when I bought the car. The fluid is only slightly discolored when I flush.

[RWebb]

I Harry-ize my car too but use a garden sprayer since I'm too cheap to buy a Motive bleeder for $40

do it every 2 years if you autoX; maybe stretch to 3 for a driver in the desert - regardless of mileage

replace the rubber brake hoses with new rubber every 15-20 years

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by RWebb

... Harry-ize ...

[Trackrash]

In addition to what I said previously.

Yes, I am doing more than just bleeding. Exorcising the calipers does add extra time, but worth it IMO.

I have a compressor quick release fitting permanently attached to my fluid reservoir's over flow hose. When it comes time to bleed, I just hook up my compressor to my hose. Of course I regulate it to 10 psi.

[John W.]

When using the Motive don’t forget to clamp the reseviour over flow hose or you’ll have a mess.

[l_turn9]

I notice some on this forum are using DOT4. Based on my Owner's Manual (74 911) and it told me very clearly that I should use DOT3. I recall DOT5 is Synthetic and probably not the right stuff for road 911's (at least not mine). The big diff between DOT 3 and 4 is the Boiling Point with DOT4 having the higher BP but most importantly, DOT4 is not as Hygroscopic (it doesn't absorb water as readily) as DOT3.
Since having had numerous surgeries on my left leg/knee, I drive my 911 rarely. It's basically dangerous for me to try to drive it. I need to sell it but hate to part with it.
My question is, should I be using DOT4 or obey my OM? (Finally, right?) ;-)

[sugarwood]

Your car was built and owners manual written in 1974.
DOT4 is better than DOT3, and if it existed in 1974, your manual would say to use DOT4.

The same logic applies to modern oil weights that did not exist when your car was made.