Clutch adjustment - pedal not fully returning?

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by proporsche

""""Just my working theory at this point. I took more pictures and video and will share when I am back to my other computer.""
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ok ,your arm is now free to go all the way back to the crosspipe..correct.Did you disconnect the clutch cable or loosen??

Ivan

In the following order, I:

1) Loosened and removed the clutch cable from the larger arm.
2) Removed the smaller arm by removing the circlip; it came off easily
3) Checked the larger arm to ensure it moved freely on the cross shaft. It does. The tension of the omega spring caused it to snap free.

The larger arm on my car has a roll pin that is retaining it on the cross shaft. I tried a couple taps with a punch and hammer and it did not budge. I suspect if I need to remove it, I may need a different approach and or special tool (something like this tool). But I'm not sure I need to remove it yet.

What I noticed is the where the omega spring rides on a pivot shaft on the transmission, there are two independent wear marks.



You can see what I'm referring to in the above picture. There is one wear mark, a hump, then another wear mark. My hypothesis is the last inch of pedal feel is due to the spring rocking over that hump. I tried to capture this in a video.



Ivan, here is a video showing the larger arm is free. Anything suspicious?



If my theory about the wear and "hump" in the omega spring is sound, I can either:

1) Replace the spring, which will require ordering one and determining how to remove that retaining pin to get the arm off the car.
2) Repair the current spring. I would sand the wear and "hump" out of the spring using a sanding drum.

My only hesitation with this theory is the pictures I see of the omega spring online have a distinct hump on the open end.

[Solamar]

Couple points that might help

The Omega spring acts in two directions, with the pedal up it cams over and pulls the pedal UP. As you depress the pedal the spring cams over again and helps push the pedal down.

Your setup is not allowing the spring to cam over to the point of helping your pedal stay up.

Either your spring is worn, or your clutch arms are not positioned properly.

I'd suggest releasing cable tension, remove the adjustment bolt (the lock nut is typically on the same side as the bolt head), remove the 'little finger' and see if you can clock it one tooth towards the rear. If you can, this should help position the larger arm for better pressure from the Omega spring to lift your pedal.

HTH!

[proporsche]

ok 1st there is absolutely nothing wrong with your Omega spring.The wear is quite normal due to not having it maintained at the service station or you did not know it has to be lubed there.There is no wear as you are moving the Omega spring on the shaft-trust me.I have put together many broken pieces from old springs and made one of of 3 broken ..and it worked as new.The secret is lubrication....Don`t worry about the security pin on the arm that you can remove later days and do not have to put it in ever..no need to.
Once the omega spring is lubricated ..hoock the clutch cable(did you ever loosen it form the front side so the cable has a lot of play??) then snap the Omega spring back to it`s position....with the cable attached.
Only after you insert the little finger and do your adjustments....
Let me know if you understand me??

[proporsche]

yours look exactly like this one ...

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by Solamar

Couple points that might help

The Omega spring acts in two directions, with the pedal up it cams over and pulls the pedal UP. As you depress the pedal the spring cams over again and helps push the pedal down.

Your setup is not allowing the spring to cam over to the point of helping your pedal stay up.

Either your spring is worn, or your clutch arms are not positioned properly.

I'd suggest releasing cable tension, remove the adjustment bolt (the lock nut is typically on the same side as the bolt head), remove the 'little finger' and see if you can clock it one tooth towards the rear. If you can, this should help position the larger arm for better pressure from the Omega spring to lift your pedal.

HTH!

That does help! That explains the little hump in that part of the spring.

The lock nut on mine is on the opposite side of the arm. This seems to make it easier to get two wrenches on it. When I removed the little finger I intentionally left the stop where it was to use it as a guide to re-index.

Originally Posted by proporsche

ok 1st there is absolutely nothing wrong with your Omega spring.The wear is quite normal due to not having it maintained at the service station or you did not know it has to be lubed there.There is no wear as you are moving the Omega spring on the shaft-trust me.I have put together many broken pieces from old springs and made one of of 3 broken ..and it worked as new.The secret is lubrication....Don`t worry about the security pin on the arm that you can remove later days and do not have to put it in ever..no need to.
Once the omega spring is lubricated ..hoock the clutch cable(did you ever loosen it form the front side so the cable has a lot of play??) then snap the Omega spring back to it`s position....with the cable attached.
Only after you insert the little finger and do your adjustments....
Let me know if you understand me??

I think I understand.

1) Lube where the omega spring contacts the pin. I have some Super-Lube synthetic grease I will use unless you tell me it's not the correct product.
2) Hook the clutch cable back to the larger arm. Yes, I backed both front and rear adjustment nuts off. They are currently loose.
3) Snap the omega spring back into place.
4) Remove the slack from the clutch cable. Currently, the clutch pedal it tied so it stays in the upmost position.
5) Re-attach the little finger and adjust the .047 gap. I may back off the adjustment screw and re-index the finger one spline "back".
6) Tension the clutch cable to a proper .040 gap.

Ivan, have I understood you? Thank you for helping me and continuing to come back to this thread.

[proporsche]

i assume everything is peachy now,ok ..if yes, very very good job done;-)

Ivan

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by proporsche

i assume everything is peachy now,ok ..if yes, very very good job done;-)

Ivan

We shall see. I'll be back out in the garage at some point today.

[Locker537]

Ivan,
The pedal is still hanging on that last inch, but less now that the pivot on the omega spring has some grease on it.

It's continuing to have trouble jumping over that little cam in the spring that Solamar mentioned.

If you let off the clutch quickly, it will jump past that cam. If you let off slowly, it will not.

The adjustment under the car is not much different than before. Meaning the number of exposed threads ahead of the front adjustment nut is about the same.

[proporsche]

that little cam on the spring is just design nothing to do with the load...if you get new spring it will be the same..is your omega spring with the arm going all the way to the back position?how do you adjust the clutch cable......do you start with the 15mm nuts on cable???

how tight do you do it??

[Locker537]

I will take another video.

[proporsche]

i tell you how i do it..
Once you have the big and small arms on loosen the space between the little finger(play for pedal) Loosen the back 15mm nut on cable (towards the back) so you have enough clearance to adjust the load on the cable.Start turning the nut and watch the tension...once you see the omega spring to move ..stop and make a 1.3 of a turn back...use you hand and see how is the tension..touching the cable you should be able to see the movement of the spring as soon as you touch the cable...then adjust about 1mm play on the little finger. for people with longer legs i would loosen the cable tension so the clutch engages lower at the pedal cluster for smaller peeps i make the cable tighter so it engages higher at the pedal

Ivan

i do not do any measurements...i do it by feel

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by proporsche

i tell you how i do it..
Once you have the big and small arms on loosen the space between the little finger(play for pedal) Loosen the back 15mm nut on cable (towards the back) so you have enough clearance to adjust the load on the cable.Start turning the nut and watch the tension...once you see the omega spring to move ..stop and make a 1.3 of a turn back...use you hand and see how is the tension..touching the cable you should be able to see the movement of the spring as soon as you touch the cable...then adjust about 1mm play on the little finger. for people with longer legs i would loosen the cable tension so the clutch engages lower at the pedal cluster for smaller peeps i make the cable tighter so it engages higher at the pedal

Ivan

i do not do any measurements...i do it by feel

Here is a video taken a moment ago.



The little arm does have a little divot where the stop bolt engages it. Probably changes the gap a couple thousandths of an inch?

[proporsche]

still i do not see the movement? what do you mean it does not go all the way back??do you know there is a stop on the bracket which the shaft of the omega sporing should stop at??

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by proporsche

still i do not see the movement? what do you mean it does not go all the way back??do you know there is a stop on the bracket which the shaft of the omega sporing should stop at??

I do not know anything about the stop you refer to.

The omega spring "hangs" on the little cam on the pivot end.

The video from the start of the thread shows the issue.

[proporsche]

here is a drawing ..the top of the Omega spring shaft has to stop here on this L shape bracket ..if it goes any further the L shape bracket is bend...

[proporsche]

on that video you have way too much play at the end....

[proporsche]

just saw your problem as i said your L shape bracket is bend...picture post 41

Ivan

remove all, remove the bracket ..make the L shape strait angle again....

[Locker537]

Originally Posted by proporsche

just saw your problem as i said your L shape bracket is bend...picture post 41

Ivan

remove all, remove the bracket ..make the L shape strait angle again....

The screws holding that bracket are not going to come out without stripping.

Can I remove the whole bracket via the two nuts on the side?

[pmax]

A properly working clutch pedal has a spring return effect even over the first inch of travel, the omega does that.

[proporsche]

remove the complete bracket..no need to remove the L shape piece...use a hammer to make it back to the L shape..then put all together,,and you will be fine
Ivan

going to bed.....till manana c ya