3.2 blowin cold AC for less than $20

[87maniac]

After reviewing the never ending AC posts, ad nauseum,

I tried the easiest route this year.
Rather than my annual ritual (pull vacuum, hook up AC gauges, yada)

Starting with no refrigerant/no pressure in system,
Screwed in a fill hose to the low pressure fitting (R12 fitting)
Using a side-piercing can tap,
Added 2 1/2 cans (6oz per can) Envirosafe. $6/can
(The ballpark equivalent to 47 oz of R12)
https://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/31/t/134a-replacement/

The Harbor Freight can tap w/ fitting for my R12 hose:

VENT TEMP


OUTSIDE TEMP

[Nick Triesch]

I thought several years ago envirosafe was not legal in California. I notice it is for sale at different places. Is it legal to use in our cars now?

[Nick Triesch]

Do you use the same type of oil that you would use in 134 refrigerant?

[faverymi]

Isn't that stuff methane?

Watch out where it leaks or Boom!!!

[Steve Marshall]

Envirosafe works great. It's got "safe" in the name so it's gotta be! At $ 6 per can you can recharge every other month. I'm running 2 cans in my 86 with a heavily modified AC. You can actually put in too much and over charge. This will send the temp the wrong direction. Also, you don't want vent temps to get too low because the evaporator will freeze. I've found that vent temp range of 42 to 46 is optimum for the Austin/Central Texas area. I'm curious how well it does in 100 degree heat and traffic. Be sure to report back.

[scottrx7tt]

It’s kinda funny, people talking about these alternative refrigerants being Flammable when they have 20+ gallons of flammable liquid in their frunks.

[scottrx7tt]

Btw, running envirosafe es12 also.

[patkeefe]

How many times do you ever read about cars blowing up from this?
Not that often I presume.

Chemical Ingredients:
CAS# % Chemical Name:
74-98-6 72.48% Propane
106-97-8 26.52% Butane
-
138-86-3 1% Dipentene

[Coastr]

Most of this is similar to bbq gas. But cleaner and with smell added.

Risk of explosion is very low. Risk of accelerated fire is a little higher. Risk of environmental damage is zero. Risk of govt licensing fees and patent payments not being collected is very high.

The big problem with using this is other people coming along in the future and not knowing what gas is in there. If you sell it you owe the new buyer documentation.

[87maniac]

Coastr ; ("The big problem with using this is other people coming along in the future and not knowing what gas is in there.")

I made a quick sticker and placed it in the engine compartment.
The AC ports are original R12 fittings, that's gonna clue the AC tech it's not R134.
Tomorrow - New sticker and better alignment

[Peter M]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

Do you use the same type of oil that you would use in 134 refrigerant?

Yes you can. For our Denso compressor equipped cars it would be ND8 or a PAG 46 equivalent oil.

[patkeefe]

@brecktex,
Well. here's what I'm thinking...ain't my car. I have 134a in mine. If the OP wants to put butane in his AC, be my guest. Of course automotive AC systems are made to leak.

[Peter M]

@Brecktex,
How is a heavier than air gas from the AC going to build up in the frunk, especially when all the hose connections are not in the frunk? I'm looking forward to your explaination.

Do you know what Ethyl Mercaptan is?

Maybe your Darwin Award assertion is a little unfounded and emotive?

[group911@aol.co]

Well, except for that main part of the system that goes in the smugglers box? Which actually has an opening into the interior as well.

Originally Posted by Peter M

@Brecktex,
How is a heavier than air gas from the AC going to build up in the frunk, especially when all the hose connections are not in the frunk? I'm looking forward to your explaination.

Do you know what Ethyl Mercaptan is?

Maybe your Darwin Award assertion is a little unfounded and emotive?

[Steve Marshall]

If your AC system will hold a vacuum overnight it's not leaking. If you're just looking for stuff to worry about, every RV, Westfalia and camper van is a rolling time bomb. They carry 5 to 20 pounds of propane. Porsches and VW's are world famous for catching on fire. But not from AC leaks. 100% from engine fires started and fed by the fuel system. It's almost a weekly occurrence in the Westy world.

[darrin]

Steve -- but at least these fuel and propane systems were designed to hold/carry a flammable gas, unlike our AC systems, which were designed around the presumption that their refrigerant would be/remain inert . . .

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by Steve Marshall

If your AC system will hold a vacuum overnight it's not leaking.

Not 100% true. Many times a leaking system can hold a vacuum because split or damaged o rings are sucked in and self seal. Pulling a vacuum is nothing like pressurising a system at 200+ PSI which is the normal mode of operation.

This is why it is always best to pressure test an AC install with nitrogen rather than do a vacuum test.

[87maniac]

Jonny- +++ Nitrogen pressure test.

The 'alarmists' concerned with flammability of propane-
134 refrigerant is both flammable and highly poisonous when it burns.

My Westfalia camper has a propane refrig and propane stove inside !!!

[Ctopher]

Originally Posted by 87maniac

The 'alarmists' concerned with flammability of propane-
134 refrigerant is both flammable and highly poisonous when it burns.

Yep! You mention anything other than R134a and everyone goes nuts without thinking of what they using.

I’m running Duracool 12a in my system. It does well in moderate temps but not so well in Texas 100+ days. My system is still fully stock R12 setup, I have a fan that I need to mount on the rear condenser for some extra heat dissipation. And referencing leaking, original system had barely any original R12 pressure when I bought it. Vacuumed system, left overnight with no leaks, filled system and has been fine for coming up on 3yrs this August.


CTopher

[darrin]

seems the "perfect storm" here would be for a catastrophic failure of the evaporator coil (perhaps from too many heat cycles over its 35+ lifespan) causing a release of some of the pressurized system's propane/butane into the smugglers box/frunk (how many ounces does our AC system hold?) and the spark from the fan that blows cool air into the car igniting the discharged propane/butane when the fan that blows cooled air into the cabin turns on --