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Intro Post & help from fellow Pelicans needed
Hello fellow Pelicans,
My name is David. I have been a member for a long time, but mostly just read and tried to learn as much as I could. I have a 1974 911, which was my late father's, with metal flares, and I think the complete turbo look. She's powered by an 87' 3.2L Carrera motor + transmission, and equipped with 930 front calipers. I drove the car for about 7 years making repairs here and there as things cropped up. After countless hours on electrical gremlins, scouring the internet and repair manuals to figure out what is what, coupled with starting a family, I decided to take the deep dive and make sure this car will be safe for my wife and son as passengers. Here are some photos of the car when it was still running. She's been off the road for over 3 years now.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592951175.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592951175.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592951175.jpg The car has been stripped, put on a rotisserie for body work, straightened and painted. She is currently awaiting parts for re-assembly, and here is where I need help from the community. The body shop discarded all of the broken parts including the brake hard lines, when they stripped the vehicle. Currently, I am lost trying to figure out which brake hard lines I can use. The vehicle will primarily be my daily driver, I might get back into some HPDEs down the road, but will most likely start with AutoX first. Here are some photos of the brake related parts I have taken. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out what I need to get her back on the road sooner than later. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592953317.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592953317.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592953317.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592953317.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592953317.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592953317.jpg Cheers, David |
Going down the body work rabbit hole
One day I decided to take out the carpet covering the rear seats to trace the aftermarket speaker wiring to see if there was a short. Lets just say I should have just lived with no speakers.
After peeling back the carpet, I saw some surface rust near the driver side rear seat pan. I figured, I'll keep peeling back and just wire brush the stuff off. Here's what I found http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592954913.jpg I decided to cut out the infected and replace with new sheet metal from restoration design. After cutting out the old and cleaning up the area, I enlisted the help from a friend to help me weld in new rear seat pans. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955077.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955077.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955077.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955077.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955077.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955077.jpg |
I need professional help
After spending what some would say was "too much time" working on the body, electrical, and nonstop reading I decided my time was better spent with my family and decided to leave the work needed to the pros.
after being stripped and media blasted http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955806.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955806.jpg straightening http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955806.jpg rear decklid and battery tray section http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592955806.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956344.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956344.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956554.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956554.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956554.jpg |
Patience is a virtue
I was hoping the bodywork and re-assembly would be done within a year.... 3 years later here we are.
After tons of body work http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592957148.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592956982.jpg She's finally ready for paint. |
Hi David,
Looking good, your father would be proud. :) Lol, I just figured out your user name. Funny. |
Thanks Dennis, and thank you for all the new wiring you helped me with, which is amazing quality btw!
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Thanks,
Wish I knew more, or really anything, that could help you with your request for help with the braking system. Hopefully someone that is a brake guru will read your thread and help you out. Calling all Brake Gurus..... |
The courage that people show here on this board to take on these projects is astounding.
I should be so brave. |
Wow , well done ! what a nice outcome on a great project .
Keep at it . icarp |
That is a hell of an introduction to the forum.
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That is no small project! Impressive work so far, but what a pile of stuff to reassemble!
The PET for your year should show all the brake lines, brackets, screws, etc that you need, though a friend nearby who will let you look at his car will be invaluable. Wow. |
All of the hard lines should be available from porsche. I would start by bolting on all the suspension components first and get it rolling. A wanted ad on the 911 parts subforum here could turn them up too, along with whatever else you need.
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Getting her up as a rolling chassis is a good place to start. Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk |
To make sure this car will be safe for your wife and son, be sure to weld up those speaker holes in the rear deck - no penetrations in the firewall.
You can look at the thread n my sig. but you are way beyond it already. Best Wishes! |
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593021675.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593021404.jpg |
I likely missed it - enjoy working on the car!
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PET = Porsche Ersatzteile. Porsche spare parts catalog.
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Wow this is a big project. Cant wait to see it come together!
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Nice project! The 930 brakes is a nice upgrade. It would be cool if you put ITB or carbs on the 3.2 - You going back to original color? The car is far from original so you have full license to make this whatever you want and whatever color you want.
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Brake Components
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone.
The PET files are worth more than their weight in gold. I'm combing through and cross referencing the part numbers between the various years to try and figure out which lines I need. If someone happens to know, I'm all ears :) I went to the body shop today and got some more info on what the car is equipped with regarding the brakes. I couldn't find a part # on the master cylinder, maybe someone will recognize which brake lines would work with it. The booster has part # 930.355.027.00 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054480.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054480.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054480.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054480.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054256.jpg The front brakes are from a 930, but I'm not sure if the rears are original to the car or transplanted in. I didn't see a part number for these. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054344.jpg The rear trailing arms seem to be original, and for a non widebody. part #911.331.514.00 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593054680.jpg |
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For colors I considered repainting the car in the factory original color, which the shop says Porsche told them was silber-metallic. I also thought about doing a darker blue like my dad had it, but eventually narrowed it down to a 70's period correct color. My final choices came down to something classic but loud: vipergründiamant, signalgelb, minervablau and indischrot were the final choices. I'll try and keep the color a surprise until the end. Here's some test fitment of parts during the body work phases to keep you guys coming back. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593060510.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1593060510.jpg |
Holes for weight savings, or factory hole?
I'm wondering if #15 is factory hole (its 23mm in diameter), or if a previous owner made a hole to more easily run the through body harness when the 3.2L conversion was done, I'm leaning toward the later, but wanted to check with the forum first.
Here's a picture of the tunnel from the rear axle facing toward the front of the vehicle. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594164032.jpg This is what I think is going on based on what I've gathered from this forum, and photos of the tunnel interior. 1 - Brake Vacuum tube 2 - Parking Brake Cable (Left) 3 - Heater Control Box Cable (Left) 4 - Fuel Line (Source?) 5 - Clutch Cable 6 - Throttle Cable 7 - Fuel Line (Return?) 8 - Shift Linkage 9 - Battery Positive Terminal to Starter 10 - Speedometer 11 - Brake Hardline (master cylinder to rear calipers) 12 - Through Body Wire Harness 13 - Parking Brake Cable (Right) 14 - Heater Control Box Cable (Right) 15 - Weight savings? I've got new wire harnesses from Dennis (timmy2), and fuel lines from Len (BoxsterGT), both of whom I would highly recommend for anyone looking to upgrade/repair their existing pieces. |
Pedal Assembly & Heat Control Box refresh
I took apart the pedal assembly and heat control boxes today. I will send them off to get sand blasted and powder coated this week.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594270140.jpg Pedal Assembly This rust tells the tale of the leaky triangle window. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594270140.jpg I remember driving one time and the gas pedal got stuck after I went WOT. I had to mash the clutch pedal to get the gas to pop back out. That was not a fun experience. The old bushings seem fine, except that plastic (?) one from the clutch shaft. I'll be replacing the bushings with the bushing kit while I'm at it. I'll need new springs too, the clutch spring rusted out into 2 pieces. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594270140.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594271285.jpg heat control boxes http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594270140.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594270140.jpg |
I'm thinking #15 is the wiring harness hole for the Motronic on the 3.2 upgrade. The 74 obviously didn't come with that so it was added when they did the 3.2 swap. FYI there was no m491 option in 74, the first turbo was 75 and turbo look came later in the SC era.
74 is a fantastic year because you get emissions exempt in many states. Is the trans original? If so it uses the early 4 bolt 10mm bolts on the axle. It would be a good time to mod the rear trailing arms to accept a matching rear 930 caliper. That looks like the standard A caliper on the rear on a midyear. The master cylinder was upgraded to a boosted setup. I don't think it's a 930 master cylinder though. So, you've got a bit of a frankenstein brake setup. If it were my car, i'd do the rear trailing arm mod to fit 930 calipers, (put new bearings in) and then upgrade to the 930 master cylinder. The pile of dusty parts at the paint shop makes me cringe. I just think of how careless painters are when disassembling and "storing" parts. My paint shop lost a ton of my hardware and I was micromanaging them so hard. lol Get those parts gathered up and stored at your own domicile or they will grow legs. Great project, can't wait to see what color you pick! |
Duane,
Thanks for the correct information on the m491 not being available in 74, I'll edit my first post to reflect the correct info. I'm lucky to not have to deal with emissions on this vehicle in California :D According to receipts I've found the transmission has a matching serial to the engine and is supposedly from an 87 Carrera. I remember it having 5 gears + reverse being to the right and down. Looking at the PET and photos I have of the transmission it doesn't appear to be from an 87~89 just based off the front and driveshaft covers. I'll have to go and find a part number to confirm. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594314208.jpg I'm liking your idea on correcting the mixed braking system but I'll need to check what that would cost and entail. If you can point me to more info on the trailing arm modification that would be great. I totally hear you on the mess of parts at the shop and micro managing. When I do this again for the next car, I'll strip it myself and bring it in for metal/paint work. |
Gauge Wiring
I've been working with the shop to get the wiring all figured out for the car. I wrote up this to help the shop wire up the gauges and thought this might be useful for someone down the line.
The "quotes" are what is on the labels for each of my wires. Gas & Oel Level Gauge http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594772201.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594772661.jpg
Clock http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594772814.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594772814.jpg
Oel Gauge http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594772949.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594844273.jpg
Tachometer http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594845076.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594845076.jpg
Speedometer http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594855040.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594855040.jpg
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Gauge post part 2
Here is some more info related to the above gauge post.
This is just a table of what is on my car, I don't know which gauges were original, and which ones have been swapped out. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594772096.JPG Here are the serial numbers in case someone is using the search bar: 91164120203, 91164170129, 91164110303, 91164130129 Here you can see closeups of the logos used for Power ( + ), Ground ( -||| ), and Conductance ( G ) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594844356.jpg For speedometer #6 use the ground wire that has this 3 way connection. You will plug the brown/red into the male connection, and use the female connection on the gauge, the brown ground will go on the last male connection. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594855927.JPG 1974 Wiring Schematics http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594856339.jpg |
Interesting silver gray gauge face
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An excellent collation of information!
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May I suggest while you are in there, fuse the gauge bulb cluster coming off the headlight switch. This circuit has no fuse and cause many to melt down and burn out their headlamp switch ($500+).
Also can fuse the circuit of bulbs that illuminate the fan control, ash tray, glove box and defrost. Shorts here also common. Finally a relay on your headlights will bring the car to a more modern setup and save you headlamp switch. Or you can upgrade to Classic Retrofit fuse panel. Just saying this after I spent weeks hunting a short which was a bulb line fell out of my clock and melted my headlamp switch, the circuit of gauge bulbs got crispy too. Good luck with the project and looks great. Btw, I have a 74 with a 85 3.2 (now 3.4) transplanted. And your speedo is electronic which means it is not original to the car and thus trans is more modern as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Thanks for the tips! I imagine an inline fuse would work for these. I'll take a look.
I went with the classic retrofit (https://www.classicretrofit.com/products/911-front-fuse-panel-1974-1989) fuse panels, front and rear. I got tired of hunting down the small bullet style fuses in the frunk that would pop out after driving over rough roads. This also has a built in relay for headlights which I found convenient. Ignore the wire connections here, they were not correct. For reference if you are using the factory Porsche wiring the fuse nearest the headlights is #1 and the count goes backwards up to #21 (depending on what options your vehicle has) toward the rear of the car.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eab83ccde1.jpg Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk |
Gauge Bulbs and bulb holders
Pelicans,
I'm stumped, I've spent way too much time trying to find the answer on the forums, the PET and wiring diagrams on which gauges take which types of bulbs/bulb holders. the PET shows me 12v 1.2W, 12V 2w and 12v 4w bulbs, but it just says X under count for each. The cardboard box I have with my gauges has 10 BA7 bulb holders. 8 of which are on the black/blue dash light wire harness (I'm assuming these are for gauge back lighting) and 1 on the white/green wire for the Speedometer's Green parking light indicator and 1 on the white/blue for the tach's high beam indicator . I have 3 dual spade bulb holders that look like thishttps://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/99963200910OEM.htm?pn=999-632-009-10-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=911M http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595292152.jpg and 2 burnt out what I believe are the 12v1.2W bulbs https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90063113290OEM.htm?pn=900-631-132-90-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=911M http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595292152.jpg This is a table I made of what I think goes where. BG stands for Gauge Background Lighting http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595292395.JPG Any help is appreciated on what bulb types & holders I need along which goes where would be much appreciated. |
Great project for an intro. It all looks so very familiar..LOL. Great job, keep going!
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