Buying a car out of state advice needed please

[Tommy Z]

Good Morning All! I am currently in negotiation with a seller for my first and long coveted 911. I am on the east coast and the car and seller are on the west coast. We are arranging for a PPI and after that we should strike a deal. Full disclosure I am putting about a third of the purchase price down and financing the rest.

My question is how do you send someone you don't know such a large sum of money and feel confident that the car will be there when your transport company arrives to pick it up? The finance company will go see the car to verify it's existence and check the VIN, pay the buyer the balance and collect the title but whats to prevent the current owner from just disappearing with the deposit and the bank's check? Would any of you who have purchased a vehicle with out personally being able to exchange the money for the key tell me how you got it done? I wouldn't worry as much if the seller were a 10 year member of the board but that is not the case. I really don't want to lose this car but I also don't want to get scammed so any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks Pelican Parts!

[walt]

I would want to be present when the money is exchanged. And regardless of a PPI I would want to lay my own eyes on it beforehand.

[Pedro '84 Coupe]

Walt makes good suggestions. But if you can't be there in person, do y'all have some kind of written contract for the purchase? If you don't trust the seller (and vice versa) you could always draw up a simple contract that states the conditions of the transaction and what happens once those conditions are met.

It really all boils down to trust and good faith. If there is any doubt, get something in writing that suits both parties.

[supersignman]

I just completed my first purchase of a 911 like you described and it went well. I used escrow.com which protects both the buyer and the seller. The buyer and seller both set up an account. The seller then initiates the transaction for the agreed amount and there is a place to indicate whether the buyer or seller are going to pay the transportation costs. In my case I paid for all the transportation costs directly with the trucking company so we didn't include them in the escrow.com transaction. There is also a place to indicate the number of days the buyer will have to inspect the car after it arrives before acceptance. The fee for escrow.com in my case was 0.89% which worked out to $427 in my case for a $48K car. At that point the buyer wires the full amount of money to escrow.com. Once it is received by them (which took a few hours) they notify the seller that they have received the money and the seller can now release the car. The buyer schedules the trucking company for pickup (I used Reliable Carriers and it worked out well). On the day of the pickup the seller signs the title and bill of sale and send it overnight it to the buyer so it isn't with the car. The seller also notifies escrow.com that the car has been picked up and gives them the tracking number. After the car is delivered, the buyer has X number of days (3 in my case) to inspect the car and either accept or reject it. If the buyer accepts it then escrow.com releases the money to the seller. If the buyer rejects it then the buyer is responsible for shipping the car back to the seller and must give the tracking number to escrow.com. Once the car is delivered then the buyer receives their money back. Using this method the only real liability you would have is the cost of return shipping if you rejected the car.

[Tommy Z]

Thanks Walt. In a perfect world I would absolutely insist on seeing it in person. However, I'm in FL and the car is in San Diego. As these cars are becoming harder and harder to find it's not likely I'll find what I'm looking for close and flying is risky and expensive not to mention time consuming.
I wish I knew someone in San Diego but I don't so I have to find another way. I appreciate your input though.

[LUFTKUL]

Pay Techweenie to vet it for you. If he doesn't do San Diego I'm sure he can recommend someone. Ideally, you want someone who will handle the money transaction and paperwork for you and also drive the car to a national shipper like Reliable to be shipped to you.

I would never buy another car without physically seeing it first. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and don't want another one.

[sugarwood]

Start a new thread in Tech looking for a Pelican in San Diego who would be willing to go look at the car. Paying him for his time would be cheap insurance.

San Diego Pelicans - Lots of pre Luftgekuhlt work to observe...

[Tommy Z]

LUFTKUL, Thanks for the advice. I've never heard of Techweenie so i'll look into it. Can you give us a quick synopsis of your sight un-seen purchase? Did the car not turn out to be what you expected or was it not real at all? Did you have a PPI done? Honestly, I don't know enough about these cars yet to truly evaluate it but I plan to learn. If it looks like the photos and the PPI is good I am ready to take the plunge.

Sugarwood, that's a good idea too. Thanks!

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by supersignman

I just completed my first purchase of a 911 like you described and it went well. I used escrow.com which protects both the buyer and the seller. The buyer and seller both set up an account. The seller then initiates the transaction for the agreed amount and there is a place to indicate whether the buyer or seller are going to pay the transportation costs. In my case I paid for all the transportation costs directly with the trucking company so we didn't include them in the escrow.com transaction. There is also a place to indicate the number of days the buyer will have to inspect the car after it arrives before acceptance. The fee for escrow.com in my case was 0.89% which worked out to $427 in my case for a $48K car. At that point the buyer wires the full amount of money to escrow.com. Once it is received by them (which took a few hours) they notify the seller that they have received the money and the seller can now release the car. The buyer schedules the trucking company for pickup (I used Reliable Carriers and it worked out well). On the day of the pickup the seller signs the title and bill of sale and send it overnight it to the buyer so it isn't with the car. The seller also notifies escrow.com that the car has been picked up and gives them the tracking number. After the car is delivered, the buyer has X number of days (3 in my case) to inspect the car and either accept or reject it. If the buyer accepts it then escrow.com releases the money to the seller. If the buyer rejects it then the buyer is responsible for shipping the car back to the seller and must give the tracking number to escrow.com. Once the car is delivered then the buyer receives their money back. Using this method the only real liability you would have is the cost of return shipping if you rejected the car.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out.
It will be helpful for others in the future, as well.

The transaction seems air tight, but is there a loophole for a scammer on either side of the trade?

If the buyer rejects the car, but does not ship it back and tries to keep it, buyer can't get his money since seller will not confirm the return of the car. After 3 days, money is released to seller.

If the buyer rejects the car, returns it to seller, and seller claims the car was never returned. Now, seller has the car back, and escrow has the money, and seller is also demanding the money since buyer has not returned the car.
What happens now?

[sugarwood]

Logistics of a Bring a Trailer sale

[Hotshot]

First time is very nerve racking. Personally I’d, grab a mask, jump on a plane, go see it in a safe setting and drive the thing back. Or, load it on transport yourself. Far safer bet and you will sleep at night.

Flown lots during this. Non issue.

[Quickstep192]

I bought my car from a guy in SanDiego; I was on the east coast. I really didn't want to spend money on airfare and begged the guy to just take my check and hand the car over to the shipper. He refused and wanted me to see the car first. I finally flew out, did the deal and the shipper picked up the car a few days later. The seller was beyond a stand up guy and everything went well. That was a long time ago in what sure seems like simpler times. I would never buy a private sale car now without seeing it in person and personally driving it away after the sale. Even if that just meant driving it to the shipping company.

[sugarwood]

The other tip to verify the car exists if to ask the seller to take a video of him opening the passenger door while saying "Tommy Z, the car is real".
The loophole to this is that a scammer could ask the real owner to make the same video and then forward it to you. However, this request would probably eliminate 90% of scammers.
So, the way around this would be to additionally ask him to video his driver's license and title, and verify the names match.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Tommy Z

LUFTKUL, Thanks for the advice. I've never heard of Techweenie so i'll look into it.

Use Techweenie. That's his screen name on this site. Stand up guy, knows these cars inside out and does this kind of stuff for a living. Probably better than flying out there and seeing it in person. I'm sure he knows way more than most of us.

GL

Nick

[LUFTKUL]

techweenie | TECHWEENIE [under reconstruction] That's his screen name on Pelican as well. You can PM him to discuss.

I had a family member - who owned Porsches since 1965 - to check out the car and he thought it "drove great". But he's older and couldn't get under the car.

I foolishly paid for a PPI at a modern Porsche dealer. They found some piddly little things, but that the car was solid. Got it to me and it was full of rust on the front half of the car. It was my first Porsche and I learned a lot. #1 lesson was don't buy a car you don't see, drive, and put on a lift to inspect yourself. I would probably trust someone like Techweenie's inspection, but my gut still tells me to find something local I can pour over.

[Keithg]

Why not contact PCA club in San Diego for assistance? There has to be retired guy with knowlegde and time to look at it.
I would fly there if I was buying it! Why not share the car with us?

[David 23]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Use Techweenie. That's his screen name on this site. Stand up guy, knows these cars inside out and does this kind of stuff for a living. Probably better than flying out there and seeing it in person. I'm sure he knows way more than most of us.

GL

Nick

Do this.

[blucille]

when I was first getting into 911's I bought a car across the country from me (it was in the bay area, I'm in NJ)....had a PPI done, which showed only minor issues, the shop was well respected and knew the cars but didn't report much was wrong. Had the car shipped home and it was ok-enough. But as I dug into it, I found all kinds of issues, major previous repairs from impacts and very poorly done rust repairs, expanding foam covered with undercoat layer upon layer.

I had a few experts look at the car, each told me to sell it and buy a good one....these cars were cheap-ish back then. So I did....sold the car as a good driver with known/disclosed issues.

That buyer kept the car for a year and sold it again, without disclosing the issues.....and the new buyer picked up the car and started bad-mouthing me for shotty repairs....now, he's had it for probably 6 years....and he's finding the bad repairs and the expanding foam, and as much as I've tried to guide him down the thought process that it wasn't my doing, all the junk he's trying to fix.....he still thinks it's my responsibility and my bad workmanship.....

anyway, he has fixed the front end, but has yet to realize the rust and foam in the rockers, even with my warnings.....and he has repainted the car at least 3 times, AND he never had any inspection done, so he jumped-in blind.

in summary, put your eyes on the car, it is worth it, even after inspections.....I just did this with a modern SUV for my wife, flew across the country and drove it home....flights are empty and safe if you have some sense about you. Enjoy a long drive, or ship it home....that's your choice, but don't buy it sight unseen.

[Snitzler]

I am up in Winnipeg, Canada. I purchased a 1988 3.2 in Jacksonville, Florida. I paid for a PPI and the owner took the car in. The shop sent me the PPI and I agreed to buy the car. I don't recall if he requested a deposit but he did want cash. I flew down to Jacksonville and with title in hand, drove the car back. Spending this kind of cash is non trivial and I believe you should be present. Being there helped with paper work and it became an adventure driving the car back.

[supersignman]

Sugarwood, I thought about the different scenarios where the buyer or seller could get scammed with escrow.com but I think the tracking number from the trucking company is what secures the transaction. Once escrow.com has the tracking number they can independently confirm the car was picked up and/or delivered through the trucking company. I even thought about a scenario where the buyer and/or seller was incapacitated for some reason and/or didn't respond but I think they have a good system. If the buyer rejects the car and ships it back to the seller then escrow.com will verify the delivery to the seller with the tracking number via the trucking company (regardless whether the seller confirms it) and release the money back to the buyer.