Clutch pedal position suddenly changed after a snapping noise.
 

Hey all,

I was out enjoying a few errands in my 930. I was at a stop light and pressed the clutch pedal in when I suddenly heard a *snap* followed by the pedal suddenly dropping an inch downward towards the floor. The car still drives, clutch engages normally but the neutral position of the pedal (ie. when I’m not pushing at all on the pedal) is now deeper into the floor. What’s happening?


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One of two things:
1) The cross pin which connects the pedal arm to the cross shaft (whose end inside the tunnel is what pulls on the clutch cable) has sheared. So your pedal is more forward compared to the lever in the tunnel. This is not a stable situation - soon it will slip more, and you won't get clutch disengagement. You can fix this, though with difficulty, with the pedal cluster in place. You have to figure out how to hold the cross shaft so you can pull the pedal back so the three pieces of the pin are lined up. Then you drive the pin bits out with a drift. Alternatively, you might be able to force the pedal's end sideways off the shaft - getting the broken parts out then would be easier. New pin, good to go. You can get a substitute pin at a good hardware store, probably. Even a better one than you get from Porsche or Pelican/Porsche.

2) If a couple of strands of the long clutch cable break, either at the swedge at either end, or (as happened to me when the outer sheath got dislodged) where the cable goes from the tub to the transmission) elsewhere for some reason, the cable lengthens some, moving the pedal position down. This, too, is progressive and temporary.

So, can you start the car with it in first, and up and down shift without a clutch? This is dead nuts easy if you know how with a VW bus (I drove a couple of hundred miles that way once), but I found getting the shifts right on the 915 disappointingly difficult, with too much clashing. Though I did get home to Boulder after the cable broke going up Rabbit Ears Pass once. Because you can't count on driving much this way.

I'd get a new cable and a new pin on the way, just to cover your bets. You can inspect the cable to see if it is the issue. Inspecting the pin would be trickier. The "can you move the pedal relative to the shaft, rotation or sideways" approach might be a go/no go there - if any movement, pin is broken.

Someone else may have better ideas, as the pin breaking is pretty common as time goes on. Cables generally are more durable as long as everything is where it should be.

I'm not sure if the 930 pedal box is similar to my 79 SC but there is a helper spring on the outside of the clutch pedal that attached to the pedal box/carrier and I believe if this breaks or comes off, it could change the pedal resting position.
There is also a spring around the shaft between the pedals that I've seen broken before.
Just my 2cent guess.

Thanks,
Scott

Omega spring? May be broken, not separated. Not for long.

Unlikely but Could be the start of a broken clutch lever. Check it out as it is expensive if you loose the omega spring as well.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596974539.jpg

Ask me how I know!
Johan

Wow - add broken lever to the list for differential diagnosis! At least this can be found by visual inspection - you could see the crack which preceeded the break.

My experience with the Omega spring is that when (probably not if) it breaks, all that happens is that you lose its reduction of pedal pressure effect - you have to push harder on the pedal. I discovered this when I was able to push a friend's SC pedal down with my hand, while on my SC no way. It was the center segment of the spring which had broken, as I recall.

But others may have had their pedals behave differently?

I don't think it'll be the omega spring. When my omega spring broke it made a ping sound. The looped end had snapped right off. The pedal position didn't change, it was just way heavier. But it's an easy check as it's an external component.

If the pedal dropped it's almost certainly the spring at the pedal cluster. I had the same exact symptoms last year. I heard and felt a bang through my foot and the pedal dropped a bit with not much else happening. That helper spring helps pull the pedal down when you push in the clutch and when you let go it applies tension to pull it back up to the top.

Take a peak under your carpet, bet you a dollar you'll see parts of a spring at the base of the clutch pedal. Google 930 pedal cluster for photos.

My guess, too.

Update. I removed the wood floorboard and found this rolling around.

Which spring is this?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...74dfcc9a64.jpg


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Yep, knew it, that's the clutch helper spring. Our host carries them for all variations and there's a number of threads on replacing it.

Spoiler alert: It's a *****, but there are tricks to make it easier. Usually it ends up being one of those things where you end up rebuilding the whole pedal cluster. That's what I did and man it's so much nicer now, all powder coated and lubricated with new bits? Oh man I love it.

Can I just replace the spring or should I follow the Pelican guide and give the entire assembly an overhaul? I ask this because up here in Canada the driving season is short and the idea of doing a big project in prime driving season is depressing.


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You can just replace the spring. Search this forum for tips. You can find pictures of how guys have expanded the new spring by jamming washers between the coils with enough force to force the coils to get farther apart. When you have it long enough, you can slip the end you didn't hook up on its peg.

Once you get it in place, you pull the washers out with pliers or vice grips, the spring tightens, and you are good.

Without a trick like that you need an old drum brake tool which allows you to lever a hook end over its pin so that it slides down the tool and into place. Not a lot of room for doing that.

I had no idea that spring could break. Always learning something here.

If any part of the clutch release system fails, (cracked release lever, broken clutch cable strands, clutch release pivot bolt, excessive wear, etc.), that will affect clutch disengagement and thus cleanly disengaging/engaging gears.

Sherwood

I’ve never had an issue with engaging/disengaging gears etc. I’ll inspect everything as best as I can to make sure all looks good.

Thanks.

Btw love the idea of slipping washers between the coils of the spring to lengthen it prior to placement, what a cool idea.


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This is what happened to my 930. The spring broke. The spring is to keep the pedal at it's top resting point so it doesn't sit on the cable putting pressure on the throw out bearing.

I think this is what happened to the OP's clutch pedal.

Can this spring be purchased? I didn't see it here on PP.

Here's the part#
https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/etka/part/93042300500/?fbclid=IwAR1Mf2NQSH-xVqo4zlo2Ll326AdPUVUSQRIZnsgm6GI90C6B3eWG0Fbw1wM

If this is a part that fails then I'm thinking of getting a spare in advance. Looking at the PET for 1983 I note on pages 203/4 that there is a clutch return spring (35) with part no. 911 423 305 06 for an SC- Turbo is different. I will be contacting my local Porsche dealer here in the UK to see if it's available. I have often be amazed at what you can buy for this cars at the dealer.

If that spring broke, it really is best practice to pull the entire pedal cluster and rebuild it. The car is 33 years old. If that spring is worn out enough to break, the rest of the components are likely worn as well. I bet you will be surprised at the wear on the pins and bushings of the pedal cluster.

It is a pain in the butt to do it. If you place to keep the car and drive it long term, fix it right.

Tip one, remove the seats to get some room to fit into the footwells.

Well, crawled around under the dash and found the other half wedged in there. My supplier cannot get me a replacement part in time for me to enjoy the rest of the driving season up here in Canada so I’m taking this thing to a buddy who builds hot rods to see if he can weld this thing back together for me. It’s not ideal but hopefully will allow me to use the 930 while I source the parts for a full refresh of the pedal cluster this winter. I’ll report back.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d40dc6a2a6.jpg


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I don't think that is weldable, you will destroy the spring temper. You need a new one.

Canadian proof:
https://youtu.be/nwI8z0qyBSc

Can you purchase from Pelican or somewhere else?

Just drive without it. For the short duration that you'll be driving it you're not going to hurt the clutch cable. I think I went without mine for half a year.

It'll be a little harder to shift, and you'll feel it holding the clutch down for a few seconds, but the weight of the pedal tugging on the cable (which is what the spring prevents) is really not going to hurt it.

I stopped in the Porsche dealer in Sewickley PA yesterday and asked about the spring. They were able to find the part number but said the spring has been discontinued for several years.

I used the helper spring for a Carrera - seems to work fine.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/91142330505.htm?pn=911-423-305-05-OEM&gclid=CjwKCAjwydP5BRBREiwA-qrCGlxV-A5W5_tQafKeFLO0oCZq3EGjtQbwtO9AiGNzocTmhvnFjowm2ho CiqYQAvD_BwE

I had to make sure it was oriented specifically to avoid binding against the pedal as I recall. Works though. Hard to install due to the tension of the spring...

Thanks. I'll give this one a try.

BTW, at the Porsche dealer, I saw several new 911's, new 911 turbo, 918, Cayman, and Boxters. None had a clutch pedal...

Update:


Success! My buddy welded the snapped spring back together (and we bench tested the strength by applying 200lbs weight to it!) and after some struggling I got it back on. Cost was a six pack of Molson.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d3079e5e42.jpg

I did the suggested trick and shoved some washers into the coils to stretch the length out a bit to help with installing it.


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Installed:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3d75703afd.jpg


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When your driving season is over send your pedal box to Bruce Stone who will rebuild it for you. Bruce has rebuilt three for me.

David

Why send it out? The hard part is removing it, rebuilding it is easy. Does Bruce do cleaning and powder coating as well?

I have a similar situation with a weird twist. Car's been in storage and I took it out a couple weeks ago to put it back on the road. Yesterday clutch pedal did the 1 inch drop. I'm looking to replace the pedal board anyway so I pulled it off today to clean and check the pedal cluster. I rebuilt the pedal cluster just before I put the car in storage. The clutch spring is not broken, it seems to be stretched????? everything works correctly, pedals push easily, no excess play anywhere etc.... just the spring is seems to me stretched slightly. I've never seen or heard of this happening. Glad nothing else is wrong and I can replace it easily just really strange

yes you can, Pelican carries 3 types I believe

Careful which one you choose the version I used lost tension\stretched as a result the pedal is depressed about 1 inch as if the spring is broken, although it isn't. Very weird, I've never seen or heard this happen before. Notice the space between each wrap of the spring? This is with no tension on the spring or without the pedal being depressed at all. It's at full rest and as a result the pedal does not return fully!!!!!! I now need to replace it with a different type spring.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597875344.jpg

I might check if something else is in a bind or out of adjustment preventing the pedal from coming all of the way up. The clutch itself should be pushing that pedal most of the way back up, and the spring just holds the pedal at the top spot.

stretched spring
 

David,

The spring is clearly stretched and you can see the space between each coil of the spring compared to the other photos in this thread. That is not normal and the spring coils should be tight against each other. There is nothing else binding in the pedal cluster and the pic I show of the stretch spring is with the pedal all the way up (held in place by my hand ). As soon as I let go of the pedal the spring pushes the pedal down about 1 to 2 inches. The fix is a new spring which is on order and I'm just waiting for it to arrive.

Dan O

I guess it looks of a slightly thinner material than I remember mine being, but it's supposed to be in the stretched position with the pedal up. When the pedal is down it's compressed.

The geometry of the pedal action is such that the pedal stretches a bit when you start pressing the pedal, and then starts compressing as you push the pedal down further--it both holds the spring up top and helps you push it down. In other words the spring is compressed with the pedal all the way down, 95% stretched with the pedal all the way up, and 100% stretched when the pedal is pressed in just a little bit. The spring should be pulling the pedal up so much that when you pull the pedal up it stays there until you push it down.

Are you getting an action like something in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BW9xE_hmnM

I might try lubricating the whole thing, the spring doesn't have a ton of leverage for that last little bit and it might have just stiffened up in storage.