Front Suspension Pan Replacement

[MK153]

Hey everyone, need some help! I'm fixing up my '81 SC and while on a creeper figuring out how to take off the front valance and bumper I ran into some rust. The undercoating looked a little funny so I started poking it and my finger went right through. It's an Arizona car for all but the last 8 or so years so I was quite surprised to see it - quite bummed.

After searching the forums for a while it seems likely that it had a battery leak at some point in the past - for several years it's had an Optima Red Top which looks to be bone dry so who knows how long this rot has been there.

I don't have the skills, a welder or the time to do it myself so I'll have to find a shop to take it on unfortunately. I spent over an hour tonight rolling around jabbing at the rest of the car with a screw driver and I can't find anything else remotely soft - so that's the silver lining I guess...

Questions:

1. Is the corner in the wheel well (under the battery tray) the "gas tank lateral support"?
2. The car has A/C that I plan to retain - I noticed most kits like "D1" from Restoration Design do not have the A/C cut out - is it the same part that you just have to cut out later? Or do I need to find a part with this cut out?
3. Anyone have a shop near St. Louis MO they'd recommend for this? I've heard good things about Klaus at Lindbergh Motorsports.
4. It seems the go-to place to order the panels is Restoration Design but there are lots of threads saying they are not-responsive - is this still true? Anyone with recent experience?
5. What should I expect to pay for this repair? Looks like the parts are under $400 - am I crazy to hope for $1Kish in labor?

Thank you!

[Tiller]

1) yes it looks like it in the photo. The gas tank support and the lateral support come together here so you will probably need both panels plus the suspension pan.
2) it looks like you should be able just to cut out the opening but I would touch base with restoration design to verify that.
3) not from that area so I don't know
4) I have placed several orders with them for a front pan repair and parcel shelf repair in the last few months and the service and delivery time was exceptional. Great experience. Good guys.
5) I just had the front pan done on a 1970 which included doing the drivers side lateral support. I removed and reinstalled the suspension but had all the metal work done by an experienced metal man who has done many of these before. It took him about 18 man hours to complete the work. So a little over two days. Just apply the hourly rate to this many hours for the shop you choose and you should be close. I would probably add another 5 to 8 hours if you have to pay the shop to remove and reinstall the suspension.

Good luck! It's a fun project!

[lvporschepilot]

You’ve estimated the parts cost about right but labor is way low. I’ve seen quotes ranging from $3k-$10k. It is not an easy not fun job imo

[Mike Billings]

The shop needs to already have the jig to lock the suspension mounts within +/- 1mm per the factory manual.

You can build one yourself if you are meticulous with measurements.

[Mocker]

In addition to getting the geometry just right, a proper repair job includes mocking up factory-looking spot welds, adding seam sealer, etc. If the factory look is important to you (you should assume it will be to the next owner), you are looking at $5k or more in labor.

[Arminho]

As someone who just has the entire front pan replaced due to rust on my 74, I will tell you that yours appears pretty minor which is good.


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[SCadaddle]

The rot outside of the vertical seam for the pan, you could grind back to good metal and cut and fit some patches of metal. I would be inclined to patch the spot in your pan as well, either from a donor car or cut out what you need from one of the Restoration Design panels. I've seen a LOT worse than this.

Here is a video from the guys that make the panels. No jig used here.

[MK153]

Thanks all for the responses! I had watched that video and about fainted because they are like "look how easy it is when it's on a rotisserie" which I certainly won't have.

I agree the rot looks pretty minor compared to what I see in other threads. I am inclined to buy the parts from Restoration Design (which was SUPER responsive to inquiry by the way - they must be under new ownership or something) and cut out what we need from them for patch panels without replacing the whole pans. We'll see I guess when the shop starts cutting away.

The shop I mentioned above is only a few miles from my house and he's agreed to swing by after hours later this week to check it out so I don't have to get it towed in.

Resale shouldn't probably be a huge factor as I took my wife to prom in this car 16 years ago and I don't plan on it leaving the family. We just cut out the sunroof and bonded in the FennLane delete panel, plus it is not numbers matching, so originality isn't all that important here.

[lvporschepilot]

some outstanding pics here towards the beginning of this 74 Euro Carrera restoration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m800-Ci9a0s

[tperazzo]

Originally Posted by Mocker

In addition to getting the geometry just right, a proper repair job includes mocking up factory-looking spot welds, adding seam sealer, etc. If the factory look is important to you (you should assume it will be to the next owner), you are looking at $5k or more in labor.

I agree with this. I just did this repair including factory spot weld look and obsessed about the alignment. It took me more than 18 hours, ha ha.
Here's a link to the first video in the series.

https://youtu.be/RHk3--W7V0w

[Ryce Stallings]

You need to be careful about protecting your new metal. I did this replacement about ten years ago and it rusted again. Even with RD galvalum metal when you weld it the heat messes up the protection. Someone know the protocol on how to protect against re-rusting. I’m going to use OEM metal this time.

[Ryce Stallings]

I don’t think a jig is nessesary, nothing seemed to move when I removed the pan and the new one only fits one way!

[scottrx7tt]

I did mine myself. It took me about 4 hours to remove. Another 4-6 hours to weld up. I dropped the control arms down enough to slide the new pan in. Clamped it down, then made sure the control arms would attach properly without binding, then welded up. It’s unbelievable that this would cost 5-8k.. my first car I had a guy do it for $350 from what I remember. I had the whole car painted too for $1200. I saw the car a few years ago and it still looks perfect.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Ryce Stallings

You need to be careful about protecting your new metal. I did this replacement about ten years ago and it rusted again. Even with RD galvalum metal when you weld it the heat messes up the protection. Someone know the protocol on how to protect against re-rusting. I’m going to use OEM metal this time.

This is great advice and something everyone should think about. I swear by and use epoxy primer sprayed from a gun - and it will last 100 years. Do not use a product like POR15 or the like. If you do all the work to replace it, cover it correctly.

I would not do a full-replace on this car. I would patch as someone else said.

[JSZ]

Here is a link to my pan replacement, First Post, partial front suspension pan replacement

Relative to the internal finishing, I used a weldable primer, prior to assembling the parts. Of course I do not buy that it flows and seals everything off during the welding process. After assembly, I used and internal frame coating from Eastwood that was injected in heavily until it ran out the seams. I then applied externally epoxy primer followed by seam sealer. UPOL was installed to match the factory coating before it was top coated. Oh, I did also inject Fluid Film in the cavity also.

Jeff

[Ryce Stallings]

My 2 cents is that when you weld the gas tank support it creates an “internal cavity” where moisture condenses. JSZ is on the correct track. Looking at different cars I see some with drain holes drilled into this area, good idea! I’m going to drill the top as well and soak this cavity just like JSZ suggests. Using seam sealer on the top will be helpful if your car leaks through the hood seals like mine does some times.

[lvporschepilot]

Originally Posted by Ryce Stallings

My 2 cents is that when you weld the gas tank support it creates an “internal cavity” where moisture condenses. JSZ is on the correct track. Looking at different cars I see some with drain holes drilled into this area, good idea! I’m going to drill the top as well and soak this cavity just like JSZ suggests. Using seam sealer on the top will be helpful if your car leaks through the hood seals like mine does some times.

That certainly does help. The grade of metal used for the replacement panels is really good these days, but for extra insurance I still wire brush and hit that internal cavity with POR15 or the like before welding the tank support. Better than nothing.

[Mike Billings]

It doesn't bother me when someone doesn't want to measure their car project. It's your show.

It bothers me when someone doesn't want to measure their amateur or commercial or military aircraft or space project! That could have an effect we won't forget!

[Ryce Stallings]

My observation was that with the car leveled on jack stands, when you remove the suspension pan the car is still triangulated in the plane parallel to the ground. If you don’t have a jig it’s still possible to replace the pan. Yes measuring and jigging is better but I didn’t use one and my car aligned perfectly.

[Lund]

i replaced the suspension pan on mine about a year ago, dropped the a-arms, took the old piece out and slipped the new one in, bolted suspension back up and welded. obviously did all the measurements. last week i had it on a cellette bench, everything was within factory spec.