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First 911 , would love some guidance

Im looking at 2 cars and trying to decide which is the one for me, if anyone has any useful advice id love some right now. Both cars are the same price so just trying to figure out whats the better buy.

Car 1 - 83 911sc euro coupe, 3.0 liter, 128k miles, 50k recently spent on new suspension, new brakes, new exhaust and mufflers new tires new Fuch rims, and a ton of other work, has all papers dating back to 9, manuals etc. all 50k in parts refinished done by a Porsche dealer chief mechanic. Original paint with the exception of the trunk lid was refinished.

Car 2 - 85 911 3.2 targa, 120k miles, new glass out repaint, interior refinished, but no records on whats been done to the engine., no manuals etc. It looks clean, no smoke and sounds good.

I guess my question is, is the 3.2 that much better an engine than the 3.0 that its worth the investment with no idea whats been done to the vehicle? I keep hearing the words bullet proof with the 3.2, thoughts?

Old 09-13-2020, 09:28 AM
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in this case i`d go with the euro 3,0..even though i have 3,2 1985 carrera.I just like coupe..

Ivan

any pictures you can show us here??
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:38 AM
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Disclaimer: I have no ownership experience with either of those car models. But I've had my '87 turbo for 15 years, FWIW.

Car 1 sounds like it has better history-keeping. Hopefully (but certainly not guaranteed) that's a reflection of the meticulousness of the owner. It's still no guarantee that something expensive won't happen during your tenure of ownership. You don't list any motor or transmission work, which are the expensive things we worry about. But at least the suspension/wheels/tires sound fresh, and the car was maintained by someone who knows what they're doing.

The Carrera ('85) is more desirable than the SC ('83) in general. The motor is part of the reason. It makes more HP (207 vs 175?), but both engines have reputations for being very reliable. But to answer your question in your last paragraph, it's not so much better that I would pick a less-nice 3.2 over a nicer 3.0; I'd rather have a mechanically-sound SC than a prettier but not as mechanically-sound Carrera.

Taking all the above out of the question for a moment, which car looks better mechanically? Were you able to drive either car?
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harv666 View Post
Im looking at 2 cars and trying to decide which is the one for me, if anyone has any useful advice id love some right now. Both cars are the same price so just trying to figure out whats the better buy.

Car 1 - 83 911sc euro coupe, 3.0 liter, 128k miles, 50k recently spent on new suspension, new brakes, new exhaust and mufflers new tires new Fuch rims, and a ton of other work, has all papers dating back to 9, manuals etc. all 50k in parts refinished done by a Porsche dealer chief mechanic. Original paint with the exception of the trunk lid was refinished.

Car 2 - 85 911 3.2 targa, 120k miles, new glass out repaint, interior refinished, but no records on whats been done to the engine., no manuals etc. It looks clean, no smoke and sounds good.

I guess my question is, is the 3.2 that much better an engine than the 3.0 that its worth the investment with no idea whats been done to the vehicle? I keep hearing the words bullet proof with the 3.2, thoughts?
Somebody spent $50K fixing an 83 SC? Are they nuts? 83SC's aren't even worth $50K or if they are, they better be damn well perfect. Did that include an engine rebuild? If it did, that's the one but I'd be hard pressed to pay that price.

You should keep looking IMO.
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:51 AM
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Euro mileage is vague at best. They just remove the klick speedo and install what’s available in
MPH speedo
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:59 AM
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Buying a used 911 car............

You have to decide what of car you really like. A Targa, Coupe, or cabriolet and the type of motor (CIS, Motronic, or carb). Some good pictures would help. Even a PPI could miss some of the hidden defects. My criteria for buying a used 911 are these:
  • A good buy will not last long. And someone is going to buy it very soon.
  • If I bought a car at a certain price and could not sell it for the same price, it was not a good buy.
  • When I looked for a car, I want good body/paint, excellent interiors, good suspensions and brakes, and a running motor. A good running motor is optional.
  • For me, it is cheaper to replace or rebuild a motor than doing a full body paint job and interior restoration.

There is no question that the Carrera 3.2 Motronic is a better system the CIS SC. But a well sorted CIS car is as good and reliable as any Carrera 3.2 car. I own CIS and Motronic cars (targa, coupe, & cabriolet) and have a favorite. Some prefers coupe, others cabriolet, and my pick is the targa. Why? I guess because it was my first 911.

There is always a risk involve in buying these old cars. The enjoyment and satisfaction of having your first 911 is once in a life-time experience. I could still clearly remember when I brought home my 78 targa with a bad paint, torn top, and worn out rugs and my wife could not comprehend why I was sitting in the garage and staring at this junked car. Next to it was our 3 year old Mercedes Benz that was in excellent condition than this project car.

Well, the Mercedes was gone many years ago. And I still have the targa with lots of fond memories. Which ever you decide to buy, consider yourself very fortunate.

Tony
Old 09-13-2020, 10:46 AM
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I have two simple suggestions.

Make sure that the head studs have been checked or better yet replaced.

Have you had an EXPERIENCED mechanic familiar with AIR COOLED cars check them out?

Those motors have been known to go 200k + miles, with some luck and proper maintenance. However there are a number of stories of them needing major repairs at that age, so keep that in mind.

Drive both cars and see which one better suits you.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:54 AM
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Somebody spent $50K fixing an 83 SC? Are they nuts? 83SC's aren't even worth $50K or if they are, they better be damn well perfect. Did that include an engine rebuild? If it did, that's the one but I'd be hard pressed to pay that price.

You should keep looking IMO.
okay to answer questions above , I haven't driven either, they are both not near me, being ppi'd and checked this week.

The SC was rebuilt by porsche as part of a classic porsche competition between dealerships. The 50k spent is Canadian about 38k usd which is what the ask is on these start at these days for anything thats been taken care of it seems. That engine has been been tested thoroughly on the sc and no reported problems, no head stud issues, and reported excellent compression and leak down numbers. Its a euro car it has km's not miles, I did the miles conversion so I doubt its been messed with, all service records back to 1995 when it landed in California. Side markers, and small rear bumpers and 204 horsepower not 175 like the American version sc. Car hasn't been driven very much since all the work its pretty much all there.

The targa is definitely the unknown in terms of engine quality, no smoke, sounds good when it runs but you can't tell anything from a video or photo.
Old 09-13-2020, 11:11 AM
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where in CA are those cars we can point you for PPI if you like?

Ivan
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:30 AM
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Gordon made the one point I was going to make about the SC - the head studs. I bought mine after it had sat for 13 years without understanding the issue of the head studs. A year later I had to have a top end rebuild done. It was expensive and we did a lot of "while you're in there" work. That said, I feel the engine is now good to go probably for the rest of my life time as long as I keep it maintained, which I do.

I think the issue with the head studs often comes when a car sits, condensation collects, and the dilavar studs rust and become brittle. With 128k miles, it's likely been regularly driven and hopefully has avoided condensation sitting on the studs, but that is one thing to check on - maybe you can find out from the owner or by perusing the maintenance records.

Either way, it sounds like you are going into it with a good, measured approach - good luck and enjoy!
Old 09-13-2020, 11:34 AM
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No, the 3,2 is not so much greater that it offsets $35k in service repairs. But, $35k in dealer repairs is like $15k of indy shop repairs.

Coupe is a premium
Repaint is a negative.
Service history is a plus.
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Old 09-13-2020, 01:23 PM
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Why do you want an air cooled Porsche.

What are your expectations from the car?

The SC "sounds" like as solid a car as one can hope for. When was the 915 trans serviced? How are the synchros?

Was the SC's engine fully rebuilt, or just "checked".

If the engine and trans are both original 128K miles at some point you are in for $10-$30K of work. These are old cars, they have issues, none of which are cheap. You can in some cases drop more into the car than the cars market value.

unless you absolutely NEED an air-cooled Porsche I'd find an alternative for the sport car fix.
Old 09-13-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post

unless you absolutely NEED an air-cooled Porsche I'd find an alternative for the sport car fix.
In all fairness, most people won't know if they "need" an aircooled 911 until they've driven one for a bit. That's a bit of a conundrum for most first time buyers.

Agree with the rest of what you've written. OP, don't discount the synchro condition of the gearbox. You won't know until you've driven the car; does it shift smoothly or not?
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:49 PM
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I don’t like the Targa look. (Don’t hate me.) That is a personal preference. So if the PPI checks out, I’d go with the coupe. Otherwise I’d look for something else and not settle. This is a “want” purchase. Patience is key.
Old 09-13-2020, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post

unless you absolutely NEED an air-cooled Porsche I'd find an alternative for the sport car fix.

Geronimo, has had a bad taste in his mouth with regard to Porsches. He has says he would rather own a Mustang or Corvette . I have 5 911's . The most fun period .
Go for the SC
Just my thoughts
I have had over 500 sports cars
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Old 09-13-2020, 04:32 PM
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icrap, it would be more helpful to the OP if you focused on what I have said here in this thread. My cars issues have colored my view of 911 ownership, in that I am very cautious and do not over hype the cars like our emotions can lead us to do.

I would suggest that the OP spend some time with an old air-cooled. Does he really like the car, or like the idea of the car. He may find that they are much better as an ideal rather than real life.
Old 09-13-2020, 05:00 PM
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The Euro 3.0 is more like 205 HP so horsepower wise these cars will be similar. The earlier car will be lighter.

I’d go with the SC if it were me and I’ve had a few of these cars.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:08 PM
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Euro, but I would sure love to see the $50k parts list!
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Old 09-14-2020, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post
unless you absolutely NEED an air-cooled Porsche I'd find an alternative for the sport car fix.
Geronimo, I remember when you got your 911, I think.
Can you summarize the bad experience you've had?
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Old 09-14-2020, 05:43 PM
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I'd suggest you decide whether you want a coupe or a targa (or a cab). Then find a good one. I love the open cars but they come with wind noise, more flex in the body and sometimes leaky, fiddly tops.

Ken

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Old 09-14-2020, 06:26 PM
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