copied headers
 

So QSC is a Chinese company and made a copy of a product.Lord knows this has never been done before.Ha Ha.They could have made a better copy.The bends after the initial are way too sharp for good flow.S Car Go are nice but.I sent Brian {rarly} my headers and GT-3 muffler 18 months ago and he is making very nice product.Buy AMERICAN. Brian got his company from mb911 I believe.Correct me if I am wrong.Ciao Fred

Ben, Would you put a mark or arrow on the part of the weld you are looking at?

Seriously MIG root with TIG cover passes? Share a link please. That literally sounds 100% made up.. What people would typically do as the Root is the most important part of the weld is TIG weld then if they needed to do a hot pass or fill the grove they would run a second pass. Rule of thumb is 1/8" thickness weld per pass.

TIG typically will show the best visual tell tale. MIG will hide porosity.


To answer Freds question yes Brian bought M&K from me about 8 years ago..

A weld should look like this. Single pass on .065 which is typical thickness. These are welded antoginously and are .065 304 stainless. I could have used filler but this was purge welded so not needed to control carbide perception .


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1613877151.jpg

Duplicate

Just put this in Google:

TIG weld over MIG weld

Here is the first hit:

https://weldingmastermind.com/can-you-tig-weld-over-a-mig-weld/

I am not saying anything google or the Internet has to say is right or wrong. But, based on the number hits that talk about it, it seems to be done. Nor am I saying it is good to do. My only question was the “never” should do text. And it was just a question.

...and I don’t even know if that is what is happening with the QSC headers. It’s just a supposition...a thought.....

For all I know it is just one big ugly TIG weld....

These headers have one very nice feature - the merge collector is a slip joint onto the primaries. This makes installing the headers easier - put the primaries on loosely, slip the collector on, wiggling as needed, then tighten the nuts on the flanges.

Isn't it strange to take the extra time to MIG a set of headers, and then take the extra time to TIG it also? Not doubting mb911's opinion on this - it just seems odd that someone would bother to do both on a lower price point item. Why not just TIG them the first time?

So what they do allot of times in cheaper applications with very novice skill levels is run the 1st pass a little hot which gives a very gray coloring to stainless. Then a second pass is buttered over that with a much lower amperage pass to give color and that is what people not in the know get all excited about. It is very very typical practice of imported stainless products..

Why is this done ? It is 100% about skill level. Someone really skilled in welding takes years and years to develop those skills and that is not always an option in these settings along with proper training. Just because a person or company buys a welder makes them a skilled welder. Much like me buying a computer and saying I am a programer.
The other issue is that ppe that is available to overseas work forces is very limited so the ability to really be able to hone in on the work that person is doing is an issue. If you cant properly see the work its hard to do high end work.

To compare a student in my classes would be be able to perform this quality weld in about 10 hours or so of practice and to do the quality like I showed on my headers several years. Thats why there are apprenticeships in the us that go typically 5 years.

Ben's right. I've never heard of a header fabricator tigging over his mig welds. Not to say that it isn't strong or wrong, it's just never done. If I saw those, the first thing I'd look for is sugaring on the inside of the tubes. Chances are if they're buttering over their mig welds, they probably didn't back purge or Solar Flux the back side. As Ben said, the welds WILL crack. Not if but when. Could last through your lifetime, could crack during your next race, but they will crack. Exhaust temperatures fall right in that area where the metal gets heated to exactly the wrong temperatures to mitigate intergranular corrosion. Every single heat cycle.

We used to get hand me down headers from the Cup cars (nascar). Our team couldn't afford the 7-10K for a set of custom inconel 625 0.028" headers, so we'd get them second or third hand. The big Cup teams don't ask "how much," they ask "how soon."

Wanna see some beautiful welding and packaging? Google Calvin Elston headers. He fabricates a lot of the Cup car headers but also does plenty of other stuff. He took down his website because didn't want the extra business.

Ben, beautiful job on those headers. Gorgeous welds.

Again, I don’t know what Is done with the headers You can get from William. They probably are TIG welded twice...not MIG then TIG welded. I was just asking questions about a possible scenario.

Good point.

So, are they considered TIG welded or not ?

Yes, they are TIG welded.....

Yes buttered TIG:D

So what’s different about these then the ones you buy of the internet?

I haven't checked lately, but back a few years ago you could buy some headers that appeared to be similar to the fabulous S Car Go units in the E Bay marketplace.

That was certainly true when I bought my headers from Mr. Knight back a few years ago. At that time I also had some S Car Go headers that I was either already offering for sale or was about to offer for sale.

I don't know what is out there now, but if one saw some headers in, for example the E Bay marketplace, that looked like the pictures posted in this thread, one difference might be that if you buy William's version, you are buying from William.

Hello everyone.. I hope to answer these questions.. Headers/ They cost $1900 originally and were sold by SCARGO, I purchased several sets from SCARGO..SCARGO stopped answering my calls or the people that imported the headers. The company contacted me and asked me to become the distributer because they could not reach him either. I have seen the Ebay ones that are a crude mig welded version in some cases. I have a slightly improved version of these that will be available in March. These Headers I sell are the best in Preformance relative to cost in my opinion.
I sell M&K and their nice looking and I have given him the dimensions of what I want in headers and he has successfully been able to make me two sets so far. I have more on order with heat and I hope it isn't too many more months.

Of the headers I sell presently
#1) my super light tig welded stainless, best power/weight/price
#2) M&K custom not the short ones like in photo above. nice header for the money
#3) my Inconel headers that are the best by a large margin BUT not much power gains over my standard race header until you get into ultra high Preformance 4 liters. beautiful header ugly price.

Next is Time:
1) my stainless headers to your door average 1-2 weeks
2) M&K custom length 4 to 9 months.
3) Inconel's 6 months..
Next:
Cam choices have a great deal to do with what header is better. On these motors intake & exhaust are on same cam so it gets complicated to make a motor have a wide range of power. Please call if you have any questions.
KNIGHTRACE@MAC.COM
615.969.4917