Quick question re. fuel pump replacement

[Tommy Z]

Wrapping up the fuel pump replacement on my 79' SC this morning and the front of the car is on stands. I know I should start the car and run the engine for a bit to check for leaks but is it OK to run it while the front is elevated? I ran the tank down to about 1/4 full before I started but I have never run the engine while being elevated in just the front. Any issues there? Many thanks!

[Glenfield]

Good work. Believe you could also jumper the fuel pump relay and check that way?

[Tommy Z]

Thanks Glennfield but I don't have anything to rig a jumper with. Think it's an issue to run the engine with the car so out of level? I suppose I could drop it and run it and then jack it up again but I might not be able to spot or identify any leaks?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Tommy Z

Thanks Glennfield but I don't have anything to rig a jumper with. Think it's an issue to run the engine with the car so out of level? I suppose I could drop it and run it and then jack it up again but I might not be able to spot or identify any leaks?

Tommy,

Use a wire jumper with an in line fuse (15~20 amp.) and use the FPR (fuel pump relay) socket. Connect terminals 87a and 30 with the ignition switch @ RUN position (not START) and relay removed. Make sure you have a fully charged battery and run the FP. Do the inspection for any fuel leak and connect the pressure gauge. Check the following:

• Cold control pressure
• Warm control pressure
• System pressure
• Residual pressure

The car does not to be leveled or on the ground. The front or the rear could be on a car ramp and do the tests. Eliminate any source of sparks or ignition in the work area when you are working with volatile materials like gasoline. It is a good thing to have a fire extinguisher around. Work safely.

Tony

[Tommy Z]

Thanks Tony but I don't have anything to rig that jumper system and honestly I wouldn't know how. I know this is a skill I need so I'll have to learn.

Just lowered the car a little so the angle wasn't so severe. Started it up and hopped out to look and there was a huge puddle of gas forming. It looked as though it was coming from the Banjo fitting. By the time I shut it down and lifted it up again to look around, every thing had evaporated. Does this fitting look correct? Can you tell anything from this photo? Thanks.

[wgirardot]

Originally Posted by Tommy Z

Thanks Tony but I don't have anything to rig that jumper system and honestly I wouldn't know how. I know this is a skill I need so I'll have to learn.

Just lowered the car a little so the angle wasn't so severe. Started it up and hopped out to look and there was a huge puddle of gas forming. It looked as though it was coming from the Banjo fitting. By the time I shut it down and lifted it up again to look around, every thing had evaporated. Does this fitting look correct? Can you tell anything from this photo? Thanks.

use a piece of wire with little alligator clips on each end for a jumper

Bill

[icarp]

T you can use a paper clip as the jumper wire , you can't get shocked . as tony said jump yhe pins with #
Ian

[Tommy Z]

Guys, I appreciate it very much. My main concern is the leak at the Banjo fitting. Maybe you're saying it's a safer way to examine the fitting without the engine running? Does the fitting in the picture look normal to you guys?

As far as the tester goes, I am completely ignorant when it comes to this subject. If I understand correctly, you guys are suggesting I insert a paper clip into 87A and 30 and turn the key to RUN? At that point the pump will run without the engine turning over? Then I can try to identify the leak? If I were to go Tony's route, does anyone have a photo of a jumper with a fuse inline? How do do that? Unfortunately I do not have a pressure gauge and have no idea how to test the 4 different fuel pressure he was suggesting. Would love to see a "how to" article on that. Where does the gauge attach to the system? On the high pressure side of the pump?

Ugh. I have so much to learn! I really want to solve this ;eak. If I can't I'll have to tow it to a shop.

[Tommy Z]

Could anyone please comment on the photo of the check valve and banjo fitting?

[jlex]

Yeah... looks like they're recommending you use jumper wires to make the fuel pump run so you can see where the leak is coming from. Generally, with a banjo fitting, it's the copper washers that keep the fitting from leaking. May cure it by tightening up the joint that you find is leaking. Looks like you've got double washers on that fitting.... don't know if that's supposed to be like that or not. Anyway, jumper the fuel pump so you can see where the leak's coming from..... may not be the banjo fitting at all.
You can use the wire or paper clip to jump those two terminals together to make the pump run... at least that's the way it is on my '88. I don't believe you even need to turn the key. Looks like boyt911sc is giving you correct advice as he also has an SC....

[Tommy Z]

OK, thanks jlex for the confirmation. There are no double washers. One between the check valve and the pump, one between the check valve and the banjo and one between the banjo and the hex nut. I'll try the paper clip method and tighten everything up and see what that gets me. Thanks!

[Glenfield]

Tommy, rigging up a jumper is a good thing to know and do. You’ll need it once you get to checking fuel pressures etc. pls dont mistake my comments here for any sort of expertise. Just so happens this is one of the things I’ve had to do a couple of time.

Here’s a great thread generally. You’ll see good instructions on how to rig up the jumper on the first page: CIS Troubleshooting for Dummies

You can put it together with this;
Hilitchi 50Pcs 22-16 Gauge... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D9CVFTA?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

3 Pack -12V Water-resistant... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018W2T7XS?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I don’t recall what gauge wire you need but someone can jump in.

[jlex]

I remember having to fiddle around quite a bit with the banjo fitting on my Volvo... those copper washers have to be new and in good shape to seal. Remember sanding one to get it properly flat before it would seal correctly. Should always use new ones as they'll get deformed once tightened. Those are new washers, aren't they? Maybe they're a copper alloy that's not as soft as 100% copper and they'll need extra tightening to seal.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Time for the "double wrench" method of tightening each fitting in the interconnection string of components. Those copper washers need their proper "crush" torque applied.

[boyt911sc]

Tommy,

Test run the FP without running the engine. This is a good way to locate the fuel leak/s before you even think of running the motor. Below is a picture of my wire jumper:



You will need a toggle switch, in-line fuse (15~20 amp), some wires, and a couple of pins (optional). I recommend reading DKLever48’s thread about testing FPR (fuel pump relay) socket’s terminals. Everything you need to know how to test the different terminals were well discussed in that thread. The terminals are:
87
87a
86
85
30

If you have some questions, just ask and a lot help is available. Having a CIS gauge will help you learn more about CIS since you like to work on your car. Keep us posted.

Tony

[Tommy Z]

Thanks Jlex. Yup they are all new and came with the new check valve. I'll jump under there and crank on the nuts to make sure everything is tight and the new washers are properly crushed. Then i'll go the paper clip route to test.


Thanks for that link Glenfield. I now understand the jumper idea a little better and will certainly pick up those items. Why the hell not, they are so inexpensive.

[Bill Douglas]

Tommy, Recently I had much the same project on my SC and it kept leaking - PITA.

I washed the washers and ends of the banjo fitting a few more times, and few more fittings up and finally it worked. I don't know what was different to the first time I fitted it all up.

Do have a fire extinguisher on hand. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I did have a small car fire while doing this 20 years ago. Lived to tell the tale thanks to a fire extinguisher.

[Tommy Z]

Wow! Got back under and re-tightened all of those fittings, used a paperclip to jump the pump and had the wife turn the key to start. Pump fired right up without the engine! Amazing! I could hear fluid running and let it go for about 30 seconds with no leaks at all presenting.

I would think that's good enough to re-install the belly pan and take her out for a test run don't you think?

[chrismorse]

Hi Tommy,

I would like to stress the previous post about having a fire extinguisher - a big one - handy. My vote for a shop extinguisher is to have both a 5 pound CO2 and a dry chemical. the co2/ Halon/Halotron don't leave a big mess, like dry chemical, but they dissipate fairly quickly.

Having been involved in three car/truck fires, i can tell you that damage increases exponentially with time on fire - expensive and heartbreaking.
In one case, an employees truck was on fire and i used up a 2-3/4 pound dry chemical and yelled for him to go back inside and get a bucket of water - that did it, but the top of the engine was toast, the windshield, cowell, carb and the wiring were toast - a total. He had been working on the carburetor the night before

Back to your leak, I would suggest a brief test, then scoot under and look for dampness around both the high pressure side or supply side of the pump, use a light to look for a bit of discoloration. Also, look at the lines from the tunnel to the pump and tunnel back to the tank. Sometimesthese lines may develop a leak, just moving them around.

Insurance seldom reimburses you for all the time and money you have put into your car.

stay Safe, Good Luck,
chris

[Tommy Z]

Hi Chris, I most definitely am not taking this lightly. Honestly this one scared the ship out of me! I da have a chemical extinguisher at the ready but after reading your post I will for sure invest in something more powerful before I address any kind of fuel repair again. I just ran the engine for a few minutes and climbed back under to watch and look further. I don't see any sign of leaks. Gonna run again for a few more minutes and then crawl again for a good look around. After that I am declaring it road worthy once again.