Verify "Matching Numbers" without COA?
 

I'm on a quest to verify that the engine and trans numbers on my 1987 Coupe prove that they are original to the car.

I have no reason to believe otherwise (they are "H" numbers indicating the year 1987) and the engine type is correct for the car as well. USA, Catalyst equipped.

Older cars (like my 1978 SC) have a spot in the warranty book for such a thing but the later book doesn't. Although the option code sticker is there, it doesn't list the motor or trans numbers.

I am preparing to sell the car and would like to be able to claim "matching numbers" with some certainty.

With Porsche no longer supplying COA's how is this information obtained? I don't have a relationship with a dealer (nearest one is 500 miles away) so that's out.

Thanks and all the best, Jon

Not sure he can pull data on an 87 but have tried asking Dave Pateman?

Jon, do you have the sticker on the hood? Engine and tranny codes listed there right above the paint code.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618321678.jpg

I've talked with Dave, but his service seems a little more suited to older cars. I don't know where he is "pulling data" from if it isn't from Porsche?

I sure wish I'd gotten a COA when I had the chance. It's starting to look convenient and cheap!

Yup thanks for that - I do have the option sticker in the book and under-frunk, and the engine type matches the car. In fact the serial number matches the appropriate range for a 1987 catalyst equipped car, really there is little doubt about the car's originality, but I'm looking for some sort of OFFICIAL documentation (even just an email) to show the actual serial number of the engine and trans to prove "matching numbers". I could give two hoots about it really, but it seems to be part of the sales game these days with Porshaws...... and if missing, is something for the peanut gallery on BaT to pick at, along with paint meter readings and cold start videos and who knows what else!!!

Wait is this the actual serial numbers that should be on the engine and trans?

I just looked at the docs from my last car that had that sticker and those are only the engine type numbers, not the serial numbers (sample size one of one)

Nope - just the type - for instance this car has engine type 930/21, the 64 designated north american market, and "F" indicates 1985.

According to (stolen from another thread):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618323797.jpg

Correction:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618323883.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618323883.jpg

Jon, yes now I see your dilemma, you have the correct engine/tranny type and serial numbers that should be in your car but can't tell to a certainty if they are the originals. I just assumed on mine. 930/21 is the right engine type and 64F-----is the right serial # range. Same with the tranny.

Well, I'm afraid I was wasting everyone's time. A quick email to the (somewhat) local dealer and I was all set! Information was very limited, but included exactly what I needed.

Thanks everyone!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618411069.jpg

COA Accuracy
 

COAs are not always accurate. I have a 1966 912 Karmann coupe. Chassis and engine numbers match, but the transmission does not. TheCOA gives the transmission number as 228018-902/1, but on the transmission the serial number is stamped as 228013-902/1, and it is clear that the 3 is actually a partial strike of an 8 number die, with little to no pressure applied to the left side of the die.

I have a good history on this car, going back to when it was delivered to its original buyer in Germany, and I have a copy of th Kardex from the factory as well as the COA. The odds of the transmission being replaced at any time by a transmission numbered only 5 numbers earlier in sequence is phenomenally small so I don't obsess over the difference

Today these numbers are machine applied, which should eliminate the possibility of error, but in the early days of six-digit VIN numbers these cars were built by small teams of workers using largely hand tools.

Note: I had this transmission rebuilt four years ago with new bearings, synchros and the other usual stuff in a transmission rebuild. Cost $4,500 — about $150 less than the entire car cost in 1966!

Jerry

Woohoo, this worked for me. Thanks for the tip.

I emailed a parts manager at my local Porsche dealership and got the screenshot. There are several in my area so I chose the one that is the "Porsche Classic Specialist".

I asked nicely and also showed a picture of the first page of my service book where the initial dealership did not fill out the space for the engine number on my '82 Targa.

Pfft... I tried with my local Porsche dealer and they told me to call Porsche of North America...

In the Motor Vehicle Theft Law Act of 1984 beginning Sept. 1, 1986 cars were marked with theft identification tags with the VIN number. The engine and transmission were marked as well as other locations. TSB 8601 - Motor Vehicle Theft Law Act of 1984 lists all of the locations.

My 87 Carrera still has the tags but the engine and transmission labels are difficult to read.

That's really interesting. Right around the time the owners manual lost the spot for the numbers to be entered..... the tags on mine are illegible , like yours.

I wonder if there's anything in the law that requires the manufacturer to provide engine and trans numbers referenced to VIN?

I reached out to my local Porsche dealer today and this is what they sent me. Just info on engine and gearbox type but no serial numbers. Are dealerships able to get the serial numbers?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1664985448.jpg

I got a build sheet for my 85 Carrera from vinanalytics.com. Engine an trans serial numbers matched the car. Pretty much everything else matched the window sticker, and the sticker in the warranty book.

The only error was their interpretation of the two character interior code (VA is dark blue full leather, and they said VA was something else). The individual codes for the seats, etc. we all correct though.

Price was very reasonable, $12 or so a couple of years ago.

It is not a COA, no signature or fancy paper. But it does document the engine/trans numbers.

—Dave


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here it is. —DaveAttachment 10641


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used vinalytics as well to get the serial numbers and it also helped to breakdown the options which was listed as a group code on the frunk sticker. We’ll worth the $12.00

When was the last time any of you have used Vin Analytics? Their website says best for 1995 and newer cars and they can only provide "limited information" for pre-1995 cars. Still may do it for $12, but not sure it'll give me any info that I don't already have. They also think my car has 270HP - I wish! TIA

That site only seems to support post-1980 VINs. Is there an option for older cars?

My ‘84 was done less than a year ago and it’s very accurate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665071682.png

Thanks Tinkerer!

Pulled the trigger and no engine or trans serial number info was provided. Also states my seatbelts are maritime blue. They are black. If you have little to no info on your car, probably worth the $13, but if you know the basics and don't want to toss the dice in hopes of trans/engine numbers, not worth the $13 IMHO.

I just tried Vin Analytics too. No engine or trans serial number provided. Oh well. For the hell of it I emailed Porsche NA too.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1665147587.png

My report has the engine and trans sn. It’s an 1984 Targa

I take back my "not worth the $13", comment. I hadn't thought about COAs or similar in years, but after reading what is now available and the costs, this is well worth the $13. I stumbled across this thread and can't believe what it costs. It sounds like the big difference between the PPS and Vin Analytics is the PPS has the Porsche price tag and there's no chance of engine/trans serial numbers.

Used them in February fir my '86 M491 and received the serial numbers and some interior spec info. My car is a Werkes 1 vehicle and No Reference to that was made.
Definitely worth the cost IMHO...

I was fairly certain mine was original drivetrain and vinalytics confirmed that and the color and options listed were right on. I’d post a photo but it won’t upload.

Didn't knew vinanalytics yet. For cars earlier than 85 vinanalytics is not more detailed than Carfax. Tried it yesterday for my 81 SC - vinanalytics and Carfax contain the same data. I hoped for more details on the option. No difference! Even the Porsche internal information does not tell more details for such old cars. After '85 and later cars it may more detailed. With model year '81 they switched to the 17 digit vin numbers. Cars from 1980 and earlier is even harder to get more details and options.

Ended up using VinAnalytics for my FiL's car and it provided the option codes, but again did not provide engine or trans serial numbers.