Post a metalwork question/issue and I will give an answer/opinion, RUNGE ELEVEN

[David Liam]

Hello,

I have been meaning to do this for years, I think this will be fun. I would like to share what I have learned.

I have made it my profession to repair Porsche 911 chassis. I have been obsessed with Porsche 911s since I was a kid. I started out in 2001 in the backyard with my dad, a '67 911 Targa, and a $150 welder.

I am not sure where this thread will go, but let's find out.

Please post a picture of an area that needs to be repaired and I will do my best to diagnose it and possibly provide an example of a repair I have performed and go over how I did it.

I think metalwork/coachwork/bodywork/whatever you want to call it is highly misunderstood in this community and I think it should be discussed more. It drastically affects the values of these cars and is often what stops a car from ever being completed.

There are many opinions when it comes to this type of work, so please keep that in mind. I have my methods and techniques and there are many more out there. I have trained with some of the best coach builders in the world so I am aware of what the ceiling is in terms of quality. What I do is more of precise panel replacement, the aftermarket supply of panels is phenomenal for air cooled 911s, so panels rarely need to be fabricated from scratch.

Please feel free to jump in and post!

I started something similar years ago about Celettes:

Anyone interested in getting a 911 repaired/checked on a Celette Repair Bench?


Below is my website and Instagram:

https://www.rungeeleven.com/

https://www.instagram.com/rungeeleven/

[David Liam]

Below is one my favorite pictures from my work. Complete donor roof being welded to brand new Porsche Classic quarter panel with a Pro Spot PR-10.

[GG Allin]

My question would be related to that fine line visible in the paint. What is that? The reason I ask is, I have an original paint '88 that the paint is faded through pretty good. There is a line visible in the same spot on my car. Can't imagine it's a metal seam there.

[Rodney Nelson]

I remember your original posting about Celette Benches and thought it was crazy that you were collecting them!

I have a '72 that I need to get on one one to be checked out as it has definitely been hit in the past. could you please explain how they actually straighten the body if a problem is found?

[David Liam]

Originally Posted by GG Allin

My question would be related to that fine line visible in the paint. What is that? The reason I ask is, I have an original paint '88 that the paint is faded through pretty good. There is a line visible in the same spot on my car. Can't imagine it's a metal seam there.

The factory did not have a seam there. I butt welded the replacement panel about 8 mm from the rain gutter line. You're just seeing where I removed the coating, probably a faint scratch from something. I basically copied Porsche's restoration technique. About 1:35 in you'll see where the seam is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGluqXusqc

But now that I think of it, there is a foam type material in the area that is epoxied in to keep moisture and debris from getting up into the unibody in that section. Sometimes corrosion occurs there, maybe your issue is related to that in some way.

[David Liam]

Originally Posted by Rodney Nelson

I remember your original posting about Celette Benches and thought it was crazy that you were collecting them!

I have a '72 that I need to get on one one to be checked out as it has definitely been hit in the past. could you please explain how they actually straighten the body if a problem is found?

That is very difficult to answer, I can show you a factory video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A22MAIQ-xQ4&t=32s

It takes a lot of experience and understanding of how the cars were made. I have a lot of custom attachments along with several smaller hydraulics in addition the the "dozer" that is shown in the video. I literally have the exact same setup as the factory in Germany in the video.

I have seen a lot of accident damage and it's all pretty similar, rear ends get pushed over to one side, front ends get pushed back and wrinkled. It is a complicated question to answer, but hydraulics and proper fixtures are the key. Most cars I work on have been hit in addition to corrosion. Feel free to email privately if you want to talk more.

[allaircooled]

When I get home (probably in the end of November) I will have some pics for you. I have a few problem areas in front of my car. The ugliest is the front pan which is rusted and poorly repaired and drivers side inner fender panel. My car was hit in the front drivers side and the repair was a bfh and bondo apparently. The damage is just forward of the strut mount up to the latch panel area.

Repair is definitely out of my comfort zone at the moment but needs to be addressed soon so I can get the car painted back to its original ice green metallic.

[jaycee1977]

Awesome offer, and perfect timing. First time restoring a car, it's a '77 Targa. I'm just commencing bodywork repairs. I'd love your advice on 2 areas in particular please. 1 - Rear impact damage (buckled) and very thick filler on quarter panel. 2 - where a PO appears to have let the car drop off an axle stand on the TB cover and the stand pierced the exterior skin and pushed the interior in by the driver seat belt attachment point. I will be working on the body in a workshop where I will be able to have the car on a Celette jig in a couple of weeks. Thank you. JC

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[David Liam]

jaycee1977,

1. The rear end ---- It's tough to say what is going on without putting it on a Celette with fixtures. The bumpers on a '77 are very stout and I am guessing they took most of the hit and possibly tweaked the frame in the rear. That's one of the challenges with older 911s, they have already been "repaired" so you don't get to see the actual accident damage. If you look on my website, there is a blue car that had the exact issue I am describing, I'll dig up a photo for the forum actually. It will show how the rear engine mounts did not fit the fixtures. The car is not fully mounted (not every bolt was installed/tightened down), but the torsion tube slugs fit and I put a few bolts hear and there. It was a very quick check to confirm the owner's suspicion.

https://www.rungeeleven.com/work#/1976-carrera-30/

2. The jack stand damage ---- Oof, hammer to start, that's an annoying one, but at least it's not rusty. I have custom punches and hammers with various shapes, play around and don't be afraid to make your own punch with a custom shape.

[David Liam]

Below shows what it looks like when a 911 rear end doesn't fit a Celette with dedicated fixtures.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Turbo fender rear quarter panel install:

Some leave a flange @ the door edge and upper side window and mount over the edge flanges.

Some do an edge mount flush to the door edge and upper edge.

Please comment on both approaches??

[David Liam]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Turbo fender rear quarter panel install:

Some leave a flange @ the door edge and upper side window and mount over the edge flanges.

Some do an edge mount flush to the door edge and upper edge.

Please comment on both approaches??

I don't quite follow you 100%, but a butt weld is always the best way to go. Or replace the entire quarter panel.

Although, I believe on some rare early racecars the factory would do an overlap joint with a flare and use spot welds and lead it.

I specialize more in '65-'73 911s, so I don't have a ton of experience with Turbo flares.

[930cabman]

Like most of what "hands on guys" do, metalwork is an art. Most often "bodymen" complete metal repairs and spray on some crap undercoating before anyone can see the real work. Many (most) of the panels in our Porsche cars are 20 gauge and have varying amounts of structural loads imposed.
Thanks for sharing

[jaycee1977]

Originally Posted by David Liam

jaycee1977,

1. The rear end ---- It's tough to say what is going on without putting it on a Celette with fixtures. The bumpers on a '77 are very stout and I am guessing they took most of the hit and possibly tweaked the frame in the rear. That's one of the challenges with older 911s, they have already been "repaired" so you don't get to see the actual accident damage. If you look on my website, there is a blue car that had the exact issue I am describing, I'll dig up a photo for the forum actually. It will show how the rear engine mounts did not fit the fixtures. The car is not fully mounted (not every bolt was installed/tightened down), but the torsion tube slugs fit and I put a few bolts hear and there. It was a very quick check to confirm the owner's suspicion.

https://www.rungeeleven.com/work#/1976-carrera-30/

2. The jack stand damage ---- Oof, hammer to start, that's an annoying one, but at least it's not rusty. I have custom punches and hammers with various shapes, play around and don't be afraid to make your own punch with a custom shape.

Thanks for the quick reply David.

1 - Chassis will be back to bare metal next week and on the Celette with fixtures soon after so I will come back with an update and a bit more insight into what lies beneath.

2 - big hammer. Got it.

JC

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[David Liam]

Originally Posted by jaycee1977

Thanks for the quick reply David.

1 - Chassis will be back to bare metal next week and on the Celette with fixtures soon after so I will come back with an update and a bit more insight into what lies beneath.

2 - big hammer. Got it.

JC

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I am guessing your engine mounts won't fit and be off by about 1/2" - 1" to the left.

It will be interesting to know what you find. It looks like a pretty hard hit. It might even be pushed down a little. In that case drop the car on the engine mounts (if they will fit) and see if the torsion tube is floating and isn't resting on its fixtures. Leave the front unbolted for this. Just play with the car and figure out what is going on by feel without bolts.

To Correct a downward kink. You would then bolt down the torsion tube and push up in the rear until the engine mounts fit.

[da Vinci Dan]

I am restoring my exhaust. Planning to learn on the bottom before moving to the top.

Is there a product you recommend to maintain the polished stainless items? like the crossover pip?

After repainting the headers with the correct paint from Stoddard, is there something that would work to keep it well preserved and the typical rust from creeping back onto the manifold bolts?

[Gabe.]

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing your expertise.

I'm about to embark on welding on fender flares to the front/rear of a 73 911. Do you have a preferred way to make sure they're perfectly lined up from side to side?

[David Liam]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

I am restoring my exhaust. Planning to learn on the bottom before moving to the top.

Is there a product you recommend to maintain the polished stainless items? like the crossover pip?

After repainting the headers with the correct paint from Stoddard, is there something that would work to keep it well preserved and the typical rust from creeping back onto the manifold bolts?

I honestly don't know. I would find a good plating company and talk to them.

[jaycee1977]

Originally Posted by David Liam

I am guessing your engine mounts won't fit and be off by about 1/2" - 1" to the left.

It will be interesting to know what you find. It looks like a pretty hard hit. It might even be pushed down a little. In that case drop the car on the engine mounts (if they will fit) and see if the torsion tube is floating and isn't resting on its fixtures. Leave the front unbolted for this. Just play with the car and figure out what is going on by feel without bolts.

To Correct a downward kink. You would then bolt down the torsion tube and push up in the rear until the engine mounts fit.

Thanks David, will take that approach and come back here with an update. Will be a couple of weeks or so I'd say. I appreciate the guidance on the approach, kudos to you for offering your time and experience like this.

[josephvman]

David, thanks for starting this thread! I was curious about the early M491 Turbo-look option cars, which I understand had their fender flairs grafted on by the factory instead of being pre-formed as in the later M491 cars. Have you repaired any of these and if so any thoughts on how the factory did this and if anything stands out about the way it was done?