911 SC Partial Engine drop Tips please
 

Looking to partially drop the engine of a 911 SC to change the oil switch and breather hose.
Would like to remove as little as possible. Anyone have any tips or procedures. Thanks in advance. Using an ATV MC jack on casters to lower and stabilize the engine.

Have you read this?
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_partial_engine_drop/911_partial_engine_drop.htm

Here's a tip, don't leave that ATV jack unattended overnight. More than one case here where owners came out in the morning and found there engine on the floor. Some ATV jacks have a safety stop.

DO NOT forget to undo the shift coupler! (In the the tunnel, under the plate, behind the front seats.)

Keyla,

Here is an old rennlist post from Walt Fricke ("The Professor")...

1) release the shift coupler by loosening the rear setscrew. the coupler
is below the plate with 4 sheet metal screws you need to remove to get
to it on top of the shift tunnel between where the rear passengers' feet
would be if ever anyone rode back there. This is a precaution, and
when you put it back it will be just as before.

2)Take loose the connector on the wire loom which connects the rear of
the engine to the relay etc panel on the left rear of the engine bay. Also
loosen the greasy and oily oil breather hose which connects the engine
to the oil filler/dipstick assembly - you can do this at the filler area (the
engine breather line you couldn't release from its other end if your life
depended on it). And the hose which connects the air filter area of the
air box to this oil filler area.

By the way, if you overfill your oil tank, the overflow goes through this
line into the air box, and then out a drain on the front (transmission) side
of the engine right next to the oil cooler you suspect of leaking. Oil
coming out of this drain will look a lot like oil coming out of a leak in the
cooler, and is a likely culprit for a lot of dirty oily guck in that lower part of
your engine's world.

3) Put your jack under the rear of the engine and jack it up until the rear
tires are off the ground. Put jack stands under the rear using the ends of
the torsion bars at the spring plates and lower the car until it is just about
to rest on the jack stands completely. Remove the right rear tire (since
you are getting at the oil cooler).

4) remove the two rear engine mount bolts over at the sides of the
engine compartment.

5) watching all other lines, wires, and so on which connect the engine to

the rest of the car, lower slowly. When anything looks like it is getting
tight or is going to get tight, stop. Don't come down too far, you just want
some reaching and looking room over the air box and fuel distributor
area, and you will get a bit more of that when you remove the rubber
boot connecting the throttle body to the fuel distributor.

In your case you have already drained your oil and removed the oil line
connecting the sump tank to the engine via the bottom of the oil cooler.
It's been a while since I did this, so watch things closely. The engine
scavange oil line to the external oil thermostat should have enough flex
for this, but you may want to disconnect it also. And it isn't hard to
disconnect the two fuel lines. The efficiency of this sort of tilt lowering
comes in not having to remove the CV s and the sway bar and the
tranny mount bolts and the heater hoses from the heat exchangers to the
valves, and the accelerator rod .

6) as a precaution, put some sort of wood blocks under the engine at
this point to back up your jack (I once had a jack slowly lower the
engine/tranny assembly over night, even though I thought I had tightened
the release mechanism).

This will give you enough room to inspect the idiot light sender area and
to replace the sender on general principles. If it is original it might indeed
be leaking after 18 years. However, it is near the breather exit and that
area seems always to have stray oil.

Once you do this you will see that it is easy enough that if you are not
losing much oil you might want to just clean things up some and replace
the oil warning sender and put everything back in order and see if your
leak has stopped. However, you should have enough clearance to get
at the oil cooler cover bolts, and, when you get that off, the two top bolts
which hold it on so you can remove it for inspection and pressure testing
if it shows signs of leaking as you set out to do.

I've never had (knock on wood) a cooler leak. The seals are pretty
durable (they are captured nicely and really shouldn't fail). You'd think a
small leak in the cooler would grow into a large one quickly with all that
oil pressure, but maybe they don't. I had a small leak in a VW cooler
once, and was certainly happy it was small as it happened in the middle
of a leg of the Carrera Panamericana and by adding oil I was able to
finish the day before I had to replace the cooler. However, it was pretty
unmistakable as a cooler leak because it got oil to places a drip type leak
couldn't have done.

The discerning reader will notice that this general procedure of rotating
the engine/tranny unit down using the compliance of the rubber in the
tranny mounts is the same as the procedure you can use to remove the
entire engine without having to remove the tranny also. Except you don't
have to remove quite as many fuel lines and such, and needn't jack the
car up as far.

Good luck.

Walt Fricke

Hot tip:

A complete engine/trans drop takes marginally more time.

Don't waste your time with a partial...and definitely don't try to separate motor and trans with trans in car

911SauCy,

That logic escapes me. Why do extra, just because you can?

No way I would do a full engine drop for a hose and oil pressure sensor. I haven't done a partial drop in some years but maybe a 90 minute job. Lowering the engine 3-4 inches really opens up the area you need.

I'm glad someone has already linked our "How To" Tech Articles, there is a plethora of helpful guides there written by Pelican's founder Wayne and other Porsche experts.

I'll do a full drivetrain drop too but then I've to muck with the CVs, redo the clutch adjustment, play peg board with the tranny bolts and that's assuming I didn't forget any steps and nothing goes awry .... on second thoughts, the partial might not be a bad idea after all.

Partial drop gives plenty of room. BTDT to fix the triangle of death oil seep years ago, but I remember it well. Also a good time to replace the sound deadening pad - if you're into that sort of thing. :)

I have my motor/trans out of the car in an hour, goes back in an hour, the axles really are the biggest PITA

Maybe it's just me:confused:

There is always something else to do ;)

Take care to not go too low if you have the smog pump and its bracket on still. It can make lifting back in place more fun if the bracket catches the engine tray on the way up.

You probably do not need to go that low, not sure on the oil breather hose though.
Just take care as things can shift a bit.

It is the sway bar which is my main PITA for pulling the tranny. An hour each way is pretty quick - A lift would help a lot - getting the car up high enough to get the engine out from under the car is tricky using jacks.

That Rennlist post was for a 2.7. The newer cars with oxygen sensors have a 12 pin connector to be disconnected also.

Partial drop is the way to go for access for small jobs.

I solved the idiot light leak issue by taking off the sender, opening it up, gutting it, drilling a hole down its middle, tapping it, and screwing in a bolt, with sealant, into the hole. This was about the 4th sender which failed, despite reinforcing its seal with epoxy. To retain the warning function, I bought a combo idiot light/oil pressure sender, which screws in where the pressure sensor goes, and just extended the idiot light wire to it. VDO makes these.

i do the idiot light without even dropping the engine..I used 1/2inch socket extensions 27mm socket on the end.To guide it back in on the threads i use hard rubber pipe which fits over the oil press switch.I also remove the air booth and use mirror for better to see ... but it could hard for you...i imagine....

Ivan

i only use an original German made oil press switches,i have an old stock parts..The new types do no last as Walt said.

I used a bead of JB Weld around the plastic/metal where they meet. Seems to have held up for a couple of years now. Now I've said that guaranteed to fail.

Bead of epoxy.......
 

The first pressure switch I that had epoxy on it was in 1996 for my ‘78 Targa. And all the motors that came under my care have this epoxy bead around the plastic. The pressure switch could fail but will not leak oil specially if you use JBWeld and will save you from premature engine removal.

As of today, the pressure switch on my ‘78 Targa is still working and no sign of oil leak around the pressure switch. The rubber diaphragm inside the pressure switch is the first to fail and will cause oil to leak. The new pressure switch are no longer made in Germany. They are made in some far away country were quality control is notorious but the price is cheap. Last time I bought one was about $7.

Tony

Glenn,

Picture of the motor I am working today.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1625281965.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1625281965.jpg

The pressure switch with epoxy bead is my signature. I have been doing this trick for a long time with incredible success.

Tony

My 2 cents is to just do a partial drop. It is NOT much harder to remove the eng/trans completely but it IS stressful trying to line up the tranny bolts while your $10K power plant is balancing in mid air. I've done both ways many times and will take a partial whenever possible.
Good Luck and be safe, never trust hydraulics with your life/limbs.

Scott

Is that with a lift or the poor man's double jack tango ?

Missing crush washer.......
 

Glen,

You need a crush washer for that adaptor. Otherwise, you will have oil seeping around it. The epoxy for the pressure switch needs to be just between the metal and plastic part. That’s a little bit more than I would like but you are good. PM me if you need a crush washer and I’ll could put one in the mail.

Tony

Keyla - the Porsche parts catalogs for our cars are all available on line to download as PDFs from Porsche. Free, too. That's the most straight forward way to answer a parts question like this on the crush washer. Catalog shows an 18x22 washer, with a part number (though of course any suitably sized crush washer will work). The catalog with its diagrams is a great resource for a variety of assembly questions as well, even though that isn't its purpose.

It does appear that where threaded fittings under pressure enter the aluminum/magnesium of the case or components, Porsche always used a crush washer, so you were spot on in wondering if something was missing.

You are entering into the realm of personal preference by way of sort of second guessing what Porsche used in the way of nuts. The plain nut works just fine. I suspect most just reuse what was there. It is not subject (in this application) to road salt or whatnot, and is, alas, often nicely protected with a thin film of oil.

The nylocks would be the same as the nylocks often used on the case drain plate, the breather, and other places on the engine where M6 fasteners are used (though the nuts securing the intermediate shaft cover are a different part number, and maybe never have been nylocks?). The catalog gives the same part number for most of these applications, but I can't tell from that whether these are nylocks or not. I like nylocks for the drain plate, they are the norm for the chain housing covers, but I can't say as I ever gave thought to the two nuts holding the generally inoffensive oil thermostat housing in place, or the breather.
Poking around, I suspect that the earliest 911s had plain nuts, and the nylocks are a superseding part. The idea is that in low torque applications the nylon part will resist the loosening effect of vibration and thermal cycles. The early part # is 900 076 010.02. By the '78 catalog, it is 900 076 112.02.

Me, I'd just reuse what was there - it wasn't loose, was it? It is the O ring which keeps the oil where it belongs, not the torque applied to these nuts. I've reused valve cover nylocks over and over again, and never had one get loose just because the nylon part may be a bit worn, hardened, or otherwise less capable of resisting rotation.

Some like to cad plate everything in sight (there is a discussion here about whether to pull all the valve cover studs and have them cad plated). Others just clean the old fasteners and reuse if there are no obvious signs of damage on "ordinary" fasteners (not critical stuff like rod bolts). The engine will perform the same either way.

If you are a shop doing, say, a valve adjustment, it makes sense to order (at customer expense, and with a bit of extra to the shop from their parts discount) a set including gaskets and nuts and washers. No time spent cleaning things. As a DIYer, you may calculate things differently.