89 Carrera alignment and lowering

05-11-2003, 06:12 AM

The car is at this point completely stock in everyway. I am lowering with 17' 3-piece wheels and then having an alignment done - standard issue, oh and it has new Bilsteins. Also adding SSI's, monty, chin spoiler...but that unrelated to this.

The shop I deal with suggested rather than a standard alignment which is $100 CDN. an alignment more suited to my driving etc...( can't remember what he called it ) is $300 CDN.

I just wanted hear what you think the difference is, who has felt the difference, if they can explan it to me, if its worth the money etc... this is my second 911 but my first in stock condition, i just want to do things right.

the car will not be a track car but used in most club events autocrossing and track days.

appreciate the help.

RazorRacer · 05-11-2003, 06:50 AM

According to Valkrye Racing (Houston, TX), there are 47 trillion alingment combinations on a 911. Picture an archery target. Somewhere inside the outer ring is what you get for $100CDN. The bulleye is what you should get for $300CDN. Be sure that the guy doing the alignment is confident he can hit the bullseye.

A couple of things I noticed after my alignment. The CD player didn't pause anymore over bumps. The driver side is slight higher than the passenger side when I'm not sitting in it. An, ooooh, at the track...it handled beautifully.

masraum · 05-11-2003, 08:17 AM

Uh, are they just going to align it?? If they are setting the toe, camber and caster they shouldn't need to charge a different price whether they set it to factory specs or more aggressive specs unless they are going to be lowering the car or performing some other additional work for the higher price.

You should be able to give them whatever specs you want to align it to. I think I would find someplace else to do the alignment unless they tell you that they are going to add lowering or corner balancing into the mix for the extra $200.

RazorRacer · 05-11-2003, 08:26 AM

Steve, lowering the car costs about $500US. A profressional alignment costs about $200US. Trust, me I just had it done and found these prices fairly consistant from place to place. Also, he's in Canada and giving Candian dollars. So this would be $750CND and $300CND.

masraum · 05-11-2003, 10:14 AM

I understand, my thought is why the same place would offer to do it for 100 or 300. I can see going to NTB and being told 100, and then going to a pro alignment place that has 911 experience and does track cars and getting told 300, but to be told at "Bob's Alignment Shop", "We can align to factory specs for 100 or give you a really good alignment for $300" seems like "Bob" is full of crap unless the second job entails extra work. Maybe I read the original post wrong and it was actually two different shops.

Eric Coffey · 12:23 PM

I agree 100% with Steve. You should not be charged anything extra for an alignment, just because you request more aggressive specs. You should only be charged extra if additional work is required (re-indexing T-bars, corner balance, etc.). If the shop tells you it is going to be more for "special" or "performance" alignment settings (camber/caster/toe), it is time to find a different shop.

Quote:

Originally posted by RazorRacer
Steve, lowering the car costs about $500US. A profressional alignment costs about $200US. Trust, me I just had it done and found these prices fairly consistant from place to place.

$200 is a fair price for an alignment, but isn't necessarily the standard. Plus, price shouldn't be the deciding factor. In other words, just because it is more expensive, doesn't mean it will be better. For example, an alignment (to whatever specs you want) from local legends Fordahl Motorsports only runs $95. The ALMS GT cars in the next bay tells me that they know what they are doing.

carnut169 · carnut169's Garage

Also, lowering your car should be more expensive than some have quoted... In (I think) 74? the torsion bar was changed- it may have been a load of you know what, but when I inquired I was quoted huge numbers to lower the rear. The torsion bar needs to come out and be re-indexed. It is a fairly large job. The front in no big deal.
I have a hard time understanding why one alignment would be more than than another... like Steve said, they should already be doing to to a high standard of accuracy. With a "race" set up you would just set more camber and toe. Same procedure.

Jeff Alton · 05-11-2003, 03:53 PM

Kevin, I live on the west coast aswell, I am assuming you are in Vancouver. I don't know who you were going to use, but I can offer a couple of suggestions from prevoius experience.

Jeff

targa88 · 05-11-2003, 05:40 PM

It all depends what you are looking for - the type of driving that you plan to do. Lowering tends to be more expensive - based on the amount if time that is required - especially indexing torsion bars (on pre-89 911s).
Alignment is also complicated based on the aforementioned parameters. If you plan to spend some time on the track then the settings can be more aggressive.
The best thing to do is speak to your local PCA members and find someone you are comfortable with. Personally , I deal with someone who does track - so that I can explain exactly what I am looking for. Porsche dealers will not generally do work that is not according to spec.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Do it yourself. The material cost is less then US$ 30, and you'll know exactly what was done to the car and that the settings are exactly what you want. There are a number of threads on the BBS describing at least 2 or 3 valid and different ways of doing it. You can easily find more threads on what the settings should be. Even if the car is lowered, I'd recommend that you start with the factory alignment settings since the tires don't car how low the chassis is, they just want to be upright and pointed straight ahead. If you find that the car is not responsive enough for AutoXing, then dial out the toe-in (or even dial in a little bit of toe-out) at the front until you are happy. You can also dial in a little more camber to taste, although keep in mind that there is a point of dimenishing returns where the reduction in lap/run times doesn't justify the increased wear on the tires during the 99% of the time that it is used on the road.

BGCarrera32 · 05-12-2003, 07:20 AM

I've never had it done on my 911, but will soon. I've just lowered mine and spent several hours fiddling with the ride height. It can be a butt kicker depending on a number of factors. As for the alignment, it's probably a get what you pay for situation. Like anything, there is probably a tolerance window (like the archery analogy). I asked my local shop why the $240 charge for an alignment. They said "you want 1.5 degrees, we WILL hit 1.5 degrees dead on and give you a printout to prove it."

If they aren't willing to explain the charges or they make you feel like you're wasting their time when you ask, go elsewehere.

-BG

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

"you want 1.5 degrees, we WILL hit 1.5 degrees dead on and give you a printout to prove it."

Oh? And how accurate is their standard alignment? At least two shops (one of them is Speedy) near me will give me the paper output as part of their standard alignment (it can't cost them more then $0.05 to print it for crying out loud!) and would be happy to discuss with me any settings that they didn't hit. If they had to start removing trailing arms and such, I could understand the extra charge, but we're talking about an alignment, not a ride height/corner balance and alignment.

Anyone charging a 2-tiered price structure for doing just an alignment is just trying to fleece unknowing customers.

05-12-2003, 08:59 AM

jeff, let me know who you would recommend, i'm in white rock. thank you

I am going to look into the corner balance option, I think that was mentioned when I talked to him last. my mechanic doesn't do the work he sends the cars out to one person he trusts with alignments. he also has spent much more time on the track then me ( so far

) and is currently building a track car in his shop... I have to believe somebody!

the car is still new to me so personally I think would rather drive it with a "regular" alignment and then after a season do the corner balance performance based version so I could actually see the difference.

as for lowering I was told it was fairly inexpensive for my car. with 17" how low would you go? i heard euro specs are one inch lower than stock. can anyone post some photos of their lowered car to euro spec or lower? thanks!

BGCarrera32 · 05-12-2003, 10:36 AM

John, the point again is that you get what you pay for. Cars have a tolerance range for alignment from the factory, and hitting the zone is usually no big deal. If you want Firestone, NTB, Sears, etc to do that for $89, they'll probably hit it. If you want it dead on, the tech will end up tweaking it longer and spending more time with it, hence the upcharge. In addition to camber/caster/toe, they'll be paying more attention to tracking as well.

I don't care what nifty new piece of string and alignment gauge you got from JC Whitney, it will get you in the ballpark (and I admit a pretty good alignment) but you'll never get near an experienced tech with a state of the art Hunter laser alignment rack.

You want a shaft machined to 1" diameter +/ - .030"? No problem.
You want a shaft machined to 1" diameter + nothing -.0001"? You're gonna pay for that....

-BG

Jeff Alton · 05-12-2003, 07:17 PM

Go and talk to Stuart at Weissach Performance. 604 738 3911. They have an 87 race car that is awesome. They are very knowledgeable and will charge you an hourly rate. I have had alignments done at other places and then had to take them to weissach to get Fixed. If you are lowering yourself, I have the correct ride height wrench you will need and you can borrow it.

cheers, Jeff 604 882 7314