Info on on-track driving?

[Kevin G.]

Ok - I'm on the track at Laguna Seca doing the parade lap with RGruppe, wife in the passenger seat. (She was originally supposed to drive the lap, but decided not to due to lack of time on the left). And she says...

"Enough of this parade lap cr*p, how do we learn how to REALLY drive the car here, and what do we need to do to the car to get it ready"...

I was speachless...

So now I'm back, and I go to trusty Pelican to find a gazillion great answers to my dumb questions, and I notice we don't have a forum for this.

So where do you recommend I look for the answers to:
A) How to learn to drive the car the way is was designed.
B) Is it possible do this without breaking the bank.
C) I imagine there are certain requirements for the car and ourselves (fire / safety / psychiatric help) before we can start

So - can someone help me out?

Thanks

[MarkP]

Whoa, congratulations.

I'm 8 months ahead of you after taking my wife to a skills day last fall. I thought the same thing you did about the lack of info, so I've been documenting much of the learning expereince on my web site (link below). Point out to your wife the photo of my wife passing me.

Careful, the deeper you get, the more addictive it is!

[jakermc]

Start with your local PCA chaper and ask about Driver's Education events. For about $200 or so they will pair you up with an instructor and put you on the track. Your first time out you won't be going fast enough to need anything special for the car, just make sure you have fresh brake fluid and pads. If you get hooked, it becomes expensive as you'll be constantly modifying your car but, but in the beginning your own ability will easily be the limiting factor. Porsches were built to be tracked, turn the key and go ...

[Jim Gerecke]

You may also want to look into tracquest.com. I ran a DE with them @ Laguna a couple months ago, and had a great time. Would do so again if the itch scratches. Their representations are accurate. There were only a minimal number of off-track excursions.
Jim. '89 3.2 Targa

[cstreit]

Yes, your local PCA or POC chapter is the perfect way to start.

You provide a car, your helmet, your attention, and some cash.

They provide the track and instructor.

No modifications are necessary, but consider a fire extinguisher first, maybe a harness later... From there, your wallet is the limit.

Have the car inspected by a Porsche shop familiar with DE events to give it a good once over....

[ted]

Originally posted by Kevin G.

So where do you recommend I look for the answers to:
A) How to learn to drive the car the way is was designed.
B) Is it possible do this without breaking the bank.
C) I imagine there are certain requirements for the car and ourselves (fire / safety / psychiatric help) before we can start

Hi Kevin,
The POC offers training at the Streets of Willow track.
http://www.porscheclub.com/

Here's a good book to get you started...
Written by a PCA 911 racer too.
Secrets of Solo racing.
By Hank (Henry) Watts.

I did the parade lap Saturday with R Gruppe as well.
That weekend we had a beer or two at the Comfort Inn.


I raced Friday for 3 hours on Seca with this group.
http://www.ncracing.org/

This was not my first big track performance driving event.
The San Diego region PCA provides numerous auto cross and driving school opportunities.
http://www.pcasd.org/home/index.html
AX is really a great place to learn and improve car control.

Instruction is provided, as you drive your car and as you ride in your instructors car as well.
At the AX or driving schools several drivers of like cars can offer suggestions to help develop you and your car's performance too.
AX racing is the safest way to learn to performance drive.

Laguna Seca is a famous and stunning track. It lacks abundant run off areas so it would not be the track I would recommend learning to drive at. Buttonwillow or Streets of Willow are better suited for new drivers and are located much closer to your home anyways.

Come on down for an AX in SD sometime!
Good luck racing!

Here I am Friday at Seca.
The ducktail went back on Friday afternoon.
Photo by David Leong

[rs911t]

Kevin, it's a load of fun. You don't NEED anything other than a helment and registration fee. Our cars were built to be driven hard. There's a short video of me and my '72 at Mid-Ohio last weekend at http://demoware.adrenaline.com/english/pub/one-lap-mid-ohio.mpg. But like all things Porsche, you'll get hooked and simply WANT stuff (tires, harnesses, blah, blah, blah). It's a hoot!

[Kevin G.]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. I appreciate it.

If all I need is a helmet (I've got the extinguisher already), it looks like I will be looking for some local autocrosses to start off. It should be a good learning experience for me, and a great help for the wife too.

By the fall I should be ready for a set of decent tires then graduate to a DE.

Should be a fun summer!

Ted - I have heard a great deal about the San Diego region's reputation for putting on some great events, but was of the impression that they were so popular they were nearly impossible to get admission to. Is that not the case?

Thanks again!

[ted]

They do get 120 cars run in a day, track walk, parade lap, 8 practice laps and 4 timed laps. + some laps in your instrutor's car.

In the last year I have never seen anyone turned away.
You can pre register if you like, saves waiting in the line day of the event.

hope that helps.
Have a pic of your 911 to share?

[rcwaldo]

keep in mind there is a autocross and DE forum on this great BBS! Also know that most events will not let your wife ride with you, unless she is your instructor Dont ask me how I found that out......

Chris

[Kevin G.]

Ted asked for a pic of the car - so I'll try:

This was taken at the German Autofest last year..

Chris - thanks for the tip, I'll look for the forum. And it would probably be best for both of us if we couldn't ride together!

[MarkP]

Kevin, Take your wife autocrossing too. You can share the same car and still get an equal number of runs. Two drivers sharing one car is common at autox.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Kevin G.
I have heard a great deal about the San Diego region's reputation for putting on some great events, but was of the impression that they were so popular they were nearly impossible to get admission to. Is that not the case?

That is the case for the PCA-SDR Performance Driving School, which is put on twice per year (Spring and Fall), but not for the regular autox events, as ted has mentioned. If you're a PCA member and your Porsche can pass tech inspection, you can drive at any autox. The more people who show up, though, the fewer laps we get.

The PDS, however, is always over-subscribed as it is limited to only 75 students each time. You have to send in your application on the first day they are being accepted to be considered, and there is usually still a lottery of those with the correct "first-day" postmark because the number of applicants exceeds the maximum number of students accepted.

C'mon down- next event is May 24th.
TT

[RSupdate]

As a recent grad of the PCA-SDR PDS, I can whole heartedly recommend it for anyone who wants to improve their performance driving skills.

Oh and TT...I'll see ya on the 24th at the Q.......

[Langers]

Originally posted by cstreit
No modifications are necessary, but consider a fire extinguisher first, maybe a harness later...

Agree with the extinguisher obviously, but if you have a racing seat and harness, it is highly recommended to install a roll bar or cage, because in the event of a roll-over, you will not be ablke to duck for cover if you are straped in tight.

[lowyder993s]

Fortunately for you, you are in the midst of great track driving w/in 2 hrs. PCA-SDR has a great auto-x program, too bad you didn't get into this a couple months earlier...the California Festival of Speed @ Fontana is sponsored by PCA-SDR and they're having a 1-day DE there. I did it last year in my 993 and had an absolute blast!!! This year I have a dedicated track car and can't wait to throw it around that big-ol' track. POC is another great group too. They have a STS (short track series) that's really cool. All the instructors I've had w/ both are top-rate, not a beater in the bunch. If you can, always try to get 2 or more instructors on the same day, you'll find out about driving different lines and philosophies of racecraft. Beware, its like a crack habit, without the glass pipe.
BTW...if you auto-x @ the Q...try to hook-up w/TTweed...excellent guy!

[campbellcj]

Dude...are you serious? I've been tinkering w/ old p-cars for 13 years now, and my wife has been in them probably < 10 times total. Oh well, her loss.

Anyways...I would strongly recommend the POC Short Track Series. I've been participating in those events since about 1999 and they're a real blast as well as extremely well-organized and instructional. The "home track" is the Streets of Willow course at Willow Springs, which is about 1:30 from you.

Autocross is definitely fun too, but I suppose it's mainly a subjective choice. I personally find driving on a "real track" a lot more fun and waaaaay more cost-effective in terms of $/hr. of seat time.

Tracquest and Open Track Racing also have drivers ed events at the local SoCal tracks, and they are also well organized, but be advised that they are "dominated" by most new, in some cases very fast, cars. POC or PCA are your best choices if you'd prefer to run with lots of other p-cars including early models.

[tmctguer]

my .02 worth from someone who had done ZERO racing prior to the items listed below, and knew nothing except for what i had read in "secrets of solo racing" by henry watts. these are in chronological order, by the way.


1). i tried 1 PCA sponsored autocross event (Orange County PCA) the first lap or two was fun, then it became very boring waiting long periods of time between laps that consisted of driving my car in 2nd gear around a track made of pylons in a large parking lot. i received no real instruction at the event, but i knew this wasn't what i was looking for.

2). i tried a weekend race with SpeedTrial USA at the big track at Willow Springs. i was a novice driving with what seemed like mostly dangerous, teenage idiots in very trashed japanese cars. there were a few exceptions (some who routinely post here) but those guys were driving with the white, orange and red run groups (more experienced racers). most attendees were people who seemed to want to fling their car around the track in any way, shape or form. i was too dumb to know what the heck was right or wrong, so i just went along for the ride and tried to avoid destroying my car. it was tons of fun, and not very expensive, but i knew i wasn't going to learn anything from these guys.

3). i joined POC and attended my first DE event at streets of willow. i had a great instructor who taught me how to look for apexes, drive farther ahead than your front bumper, how to steer around a track, what the limits of my tires were, etc., etc.. I KNEW I HAD HIT THE TARGET. they were concerned about safety, fun, and racing. they did not seem to have a high tolerance for idiots, but were OK with those who truly were trying to learn.

4). i tried a weekend with TracQuest at the big track at Willow springs. they were a better group of folks that SpeedTrial. they cared a bit more about safety than SpeedTrial, but were very tolerant of beginners. most were first time track drivers interested in seeing how their cars handled. the TracQuest folks were OK with nurturing such folks along, but were also OK with putting the white, orange and red drivers on the track going fast as they wanted. they were on the expensive side, the catered lunch was very good, and it was a good mix of speed versus safety. i was also a LITTLE more concious of race car driving and was able to use my limited POC training to my advantage. but i was actually passing cars that were much more powerful than my own (a stock '73 911E w/ passenger tires). this is when i was first exposed to the concept that a powerful car + zero seat time is less desireable than seat time.

5). i spent the next 14 months driving with the POC in the short track series at the Streets of Willow. i continued to have a wide variety of experienced trainers at my disposal, most who were more than willing to teach me to drive which allowed me to slowly improve my driving skills. i improved my car as by budget allowed. i really had a blast !

so, there are many avenues to take. i would give them all at least 1 try before making any long term decisions. ultimately, you've got to decide what you want to do............drive a few times a year for the fun of it, seriously modify your car and become a fanatic, or somewhere in between.

the most important thing i learned was to BE SAFE, and have fun. IN THAT ORDER !!! don't underestimate the things that can happen to you and your car when it is being driven at the limit.