74 911--too bad to bother with?

[Pat S]

I've been looking for an early car and don't mind doing work, but I think the one I looked at today was too bad to even consider. Since I'm new I thought I'd post my findings and see if my guesses are correct.

74 911 Coupe, rebadges as an S but VIN shows as a regular, black engine cover, not red as an S should have I think. Cost: 6.5K

Body: Great, two small dents, one on fender one on roof, both recent with chipped paint but no rust. No other rust I could find anywhere except battery tray and the area below it. Everything else was very very nice.

Interior: Good, some carpet wear, no tears on seats, dash not cracked but all the other soft pieces below the top where poor. They didn't match up and were falling off. Most were fixed with screws driven through them

Tires: Horrid, all cracked, bald, very bad, but on Fuchs that didn't look too bad (BTW I have no clue how to tell the difference between real and fakes)

Engine: Owner was upfront about exhaust and heavy oil leak. Both heat exchangers and the muffler were full of holes. During the test drive I noticed lots of oil burning but couldn't tell if it was from the engine internally or just burning off the stuff that leaked out. The really bad part was that at idle, oil pressure dropped to 0. I asked if that was normal and the owner said yes. At 1K rmp oil pressure looked good, but if he's run it for 3 years occaisionally like that, I'm fairly sure that's a very bad thing. Otherwise the motor felt good. No misfires, pulled hard, etc.

Trans: Shifted fairly well when I could find the gears. There was an increadible amount of slop though. I had a really hard time finding the gears and was never sure if I actually hit them until I let out the clutch. When in 1st there was about 8 inches of travel side to side.

So I'm guessing the car really needs to have a full engine rebuild and a nearly full trans rebuild (although I know nothing about trans rebuilding yet). So despite the low price with a nice body and okay interior, this looks like it needs about another 5-10K of parts to be back to good. My vote on this one is: run away, the PPI won't find any good news and is bound to find even more wrong than the major things I described above.

So am I close or way off?

[joehahn]

...that seems frightening considering for a few sheckles more you could get one ready to drive and not worry a bit. actually, i know a guy here in cleveland who has a 76 S (targa) for 6K that has been race prepped, dropped, koni shocks, blah blah blah. interestingly enough a friend of mine is flying in from denver next weekend for a wedding, she could drive it back for you (actually she is quite high maintenance and probably wouldn't). anyway, keep looking. if you want info on the local car email me.

joe 68 L

[dd74]

Good thinking, Pat. I'd run, too. But that's not to say you should be discouraged from a mid-year car, particularly a '74.

There are some nice ones out there, you just have to really look. And by nice ones, I mean for a little more than the $6.5K this guy wanted.

I'd start looking at the classified boards here on the BBS or on Rennlist. Most of the cars listed in either place, hava a history known to others. I'd definitely trust anyone on this board moreso than a dealer or average Joe.

If you find one you're interested in elsewhere -- ebay for instance, post a message about it on the BBS, and I'm sure I or some of the other guys can give you some advice as to what to look for and be aware of.

Good luck.

[radcon]

Yes, it is normal for the oil press. to read 0 when at idle. Oil pressure is okay as long as it increase with engine speed and holds steady. With that much slop in the shifter, I can guarantee that the culprit is the bushings in the shifter, maybe the bushings back by the shift coupler also. This could be a decent starter car or a real money pit depending on if there are any deeper issues.

[Pat S]

Don't get me wrong I have no intention of stopping my search for an early one. Just wanted to test my new found knowledge from reading several forums and books over the last few months. In all fairness to the seller 6.5 was his asking but he'd probably take 5 judging by his comments.
One other thing worried me. He seemed to know very little about Porsches. Said he owned it for 3 years, but when I asked him if the hand throttle functioned he had no idea what I was talking about. Also said he had done all the maintence on it over the years. He bought two filters once and still had one left . I guess he felt it leaked so much there was no reason to change the oil...

[HarryD]

This car may take mucho bucks to be right. Tranny rebuilt-$2k. Top end engine rebuild $3k, total rebuild $8-10k. Exhaust/heat exchanger redo - $2k.

FYI, at idle, porsches show very little pressure. When running should be about 10-15 psi/1000 rpm.

Slopy shifter may be adjustment, may be something bigger. THey are odd and need some getting used to.

Per Lord Bruce, this car is only worth about $12,000 if in "excellent" shape.

Run Forest, run.

Try here if you want to shop:

http://www.enthusiastcars.com/index_framev1.html

Also, hit the PCA region web sites for cars that, for the most part, are loved by the current owners.

http://www.pca.org

The hunt for a great early Porsche is fun. I took 12 months to find my rust free one.

[Pat S]

Thanks for correcting me on the oil pressure, I assumed wrong that is stayed high to help with cooling and to keep everything safer.

I'll add "enthuiasts" to my long list of regular searches which includes my local PCA site.

Pat

[Bill Douglas]

If you just want something to drive around in like it is, it's probably fine. Cheap enough too.

If you want something nice, by something that's nice already

[Chuck Moreland]

Body: Great, two small dents, one on fender one on roof, both recent with chipped paint but no rust. No other rust I could find anywhere except battery tray and the area below it. Everything else was very very nice

Battery tray rust is very common. If it's not rotted through, you can treat it fairly easily. Otherwise, sounds like a little touch up is needed.

$50 worth of supplies.


Interior: Good, some carpet wear, no tears on seats, dash not cracked but all the other soft pieces below the top where poor. They didn't match up and were falling off. Most were fixed with screws driven through them

Good dash and seats, big plus. Get a new carpet and fix the door panels.

$500.



Tires: Horrid, all cracked, bald, very bad, but on Fuchs that didn't look too bad (BTW I have no clue how to tell the difference between real and fakes)


New tires $500


Engine: Owner was upfront about exhaust and heavy oil leak. Both heat exchangers and the muffler were full of holes. During the test drive I noticed lots of oil burning but couldn't tell if it was from the engine internally or just burning off the stuff that leaked out. The really bad part was that at idle, oil pressure dropped to 0. I asked if that was normal and the owner said yes. At 1K rmp oil pressure looked good, but if he's run it for 3 years occaisionally like that, I'm fairly sure that's a very bad thing. Otherwise the motor felt good. No misfires, pulled hard, etc.


Oil leaks are normal. Extreme leaks require fixing.

Rotted exchangers should be replaced. If you get used ones, figure $300.


Trans: Shifted fairly well when I could find the gears. There was an increadible amount of slop though. I had a really hard time finding the gears and was never sure if I actually hit them until I let out the clutch. When in 1st there was about 8 inches of travel side to side.


Shifter slop does not indicate bad tranny. The car needs new shifter and coupler bushings. $50. That it shifts well is a big plus, a surprise even.



Sounds to me like a potentially good fixer upper. Those are all ordinary 911 issues and all easily fixed if you are handy. Sounds like about $2k to get this car into decent shape, if you do the work yourself.

I'd do a compression test and if it checks out, talk the guy down a bit due to the work required. If it doesn't check out, then you do have good reason to run.