So the new boots don't have the plate built into them? Can you sent that s%#%$@ back where it came from?

I fully realize how frustrating that is. Yet another problem with the race to the bottom for parts suppliers.

I just checked the Pelican site and see pics of a crappy boot with the thin tin plate only. Gross.

When you say "too long" I'm nut sure the extra length would be an issue although you'd have to check.

Is it possible to steal the plates from your old boots? (EDIT - you asked. I say yes it's worth looking at.)

I think this possibly - pics would help.

Or, the moon plates are probably only 3mm but likely enough to avoid issues with clearance on the bolts.

I just checked and it won't work.

The whole joke is that instead of ordering the cheaper Empi brand, I bought the GKN/Loebro. Looking at pictures, the Empi have a think flange and the GKN have this stamped tin BS.

I'm thinking I might just return the GKN. Now that the border is open, its easier to get parts.

Come to think of it I think I used the EMPI. However thay may be NLA according to Pelican?

I have a whole load of stuff on the US side of the border waiting for April 1st!!

Looks like only ECS has the empi boots and I've had some issues with them in the past.

I think I'll get the moon plates

Well, got super fortunate that there is a local air-cooled VW parts supplier that had moon plates in stock.

I think between Nordlocks and moon plates, I should be in good shape. Might need to shave a bit off the outside CV bolts, but will cross that bridge when I get there.

Interesting thing about my CV joints, is that 2 of the joint have a build date of 1980 and 2 have 1978.

According to my manual, the car was a late 78 build with a 79 model year. I'm guessing the previous owner destroyed an axle at some point

Just thought I'd share that I'm having a real down moment right now.

A few weeks ago I tried to fire the engine and it just didn't want to go. Float levels were perfect, fuel pressure great, etc. It would cough and try to go, but just not get there.

I realized that in my impatience, that I didn't clean out the carbs that were sitting for quite some time (used set of 46mm PMO).

I got a rebuild kit from PMO, diligently cleaned everything and reassembled.

Here's where my impatience gets the better of me again.... I didn't recheck the float height. I guess the new needles and seats are at a different height, or I just miss counted the shims, I don't know, but when I tried to start it again, the floats overfilled and then the worst possible thing happened, it tried to compress fuel.

F*CK.

I took a breath, pulled the plugs and cleared the cylinders. Next I went about resetting the float height using a straight edge.

No more flooding, but still no joy on starting, just some coughing. At this point, no weird noises, but then I guess I overheated my new IMI and I got the ZIINGGG!!! of a starter not engaging.

GREAT. I take a closer look at the float level sight glass and see they are high too. I guess I can't figure out how to use a ruler either. This was all last weekend.

Fast forward to April 2. I pull the carbs apart again and remeasure the float height with my digital calipers. Looks like they were previously closer to 9 or 10mm instead of 12mm. Reinstall.

Next, I pull the starter and bench test it and it looks like the solenoid and everything works. So, I reinstall and then rotate the engine by hand to see if maybe there is a sad spot on the starter ring.

Success...briefly. The starter catches then pulls an Antonio Brown and walks off the field with a ZIIINGGG!!!!!

OK, calm down. Maybe the reason why it wouldn't start before is the plugs are fouled. I pull all 6 lower plugs (because thats way easier than the uppers) and the plugs are all sooty. With no compression, I rotate the motor by hand then reengage the starter.

The starter happily spins the motor, but with a rhythmic thumping that has never been there before. I'm guessing that the few zings of the starter have damaged the starter ring. At this point though, that is only a guess. In the back of my mind though I think to that one aborted attempted start where it had a flooded cylinder and now my mind has gone to a very, very dark place.

Honestly, feeling super discouraged at this point and not sure what to do next. Admit defeat and call in an expert to finish it off? Persevere? Run away to Montana?

I'm guessing a lot of the amateurs get to this point where you dread someone asking you how the car is coming along. I think I just need a break, but also a bit of advice as to what to do next.

Realistically, this feels like a bit of a low point in the build and I don't know what to do. Hoping some of the more experiences guys will chime in.

Thanks,

Ryan
DIY Porsche Sad Club President

I’ve been there before so I know how it feels. But it’s nothing time and/or money can’t fix. I’d suggest doing a leak down test. A tester is quite inexpensive and would either confirm your worries or give you some relief. Keep at it and hope for the best.

Bummer. I'm typing on my phone but wanted to chime I real quick - no specific advice other than to keep forging ahead. Take a break to regroup and reenergize. But don't despair!

Compression tester might be more revealing than a leak down if you're worried about a bent rod... Super sucky.
Ignition timing is 100% correct? Ether and some gasoline in a squeeze bottle should get it fired easily enough if you're brave--you could disable fuel pump which would take carb fueling out of the equation.

Leakdown test is always better than compression test imho. Get an OTC leak down tester and report back with what you find.

I did mine with a HF one and sold it and immediately bought an OTC leak down tester, so much better.

https://youtu.be/PUn1QOK5vDg

Does the starter have enough power to bend a rod?

I'll grab a timing light to confirm ignition timing, it's an XDi setup that I am using.

So far, it's the starter and cranking noise that has me concerned. I suppose I should pull the starter and rotate the motor by hand so I can inspect the starter ring? I'm guessing it could be chewed up which is causing the strange noise while cranking now.

I don't think you need to be worried a bent rod. And now you are paranoid and hearing things that maybe don't exist.

Timing, and presence of good strong spark are the most important things right now.

Just checking - you haven't attempted to power the ignition from the alternator on the engine, have you? IMO you should have a separate power wire from the battery to the spark supply and not use the constant power from the alternator via the starter. Too much voltage drop during cranking.

Keep at it!

And don't get down or discouraged. It is what it is, and you are doing your best, which is all you can do.

This advice may seem strange but I firmly believe you should take pleasure in the the setbacks as they are happening. It's totally your choice if you do, or don't, let this stuff bother you or just view it as part of the process, which is something you are doing for your own gratification. You'll get to the other side of this. Maybe today, maybe next month, who knows.

Step back a few steps and realize plenty of people would trade one or two vital organs to have your problems! (An awesome 911 that isn't starting!!!!)

That is really interesting.

The power for my coils is coming from the rear fuse panel. I used the power source that would have been for the rear wiper I believe. I was trying to keep the wiring as clean as possible, but maybe I should run a 14GA wire direct from the battery or starter connection?

I am trying to think what you could check, to ease your mind.
Right now I dunno.
BUT - there are plenty here who could put their hand up to hydraulicing a motor. If that is what has happened. Have done it myself - CIS is not immune from it also. What I can say, is it seems rare that real damage is done. There are some if's and but's to that, but there is a good possibility things are OK.
You seem to be saying it is like the engine is cranking over on a tight spot - free/tight/free.
Turning by hand may help explain what is going on. If it is even and free all round, then the issue may be starter related. Power source, connections etc.
Make sure it is turning free first.
Alan

There can be a lot of voltage drop during cranking - the battery voltage may drop quite a bit and this will be exacerbated by the voltage drop on the very long battery cable to the starter from the battery. It's possible that the voltage at the rear fuse panel is several volts less than 12V during cranking.

The factory powered the CDI with a red wire direct from the front fuse panel, so that should be available for your use. It's worth a try at least.

Not 100% sure it's the issue but it's very possible and worth checking.

Run away to Montana. Quick!

I do also recommend applying alcohol to these sorts of wounds :)

How would a leakdown tester detect a bent rod?

I’m not following this logic either. I agree with Alan here. Turn it by hand to make sure all is good.

All feels good turning by hand. I'm going to remove the starter and see if there is a sad spot on the starter ring.

What's a bit baffling is that with the plugs in, the starter will hit zing spots, but with all the plugs removed, it doesn't? All it has is the funny sounding spot.

I'm far far from an expert, but I wonder if the starter got too hot and now it doesn't pop out quite as far to stay engaged when cranking over? If there is a ****ty spot on the starter ring, it is likely from a few attempts at starting it after I let the starter cool.

To Jon's point, i think I will check for voltage drop at the coils after I clean up all the plugs. It has a brand new battery so I think that is ruled out.

Agree - no use in this case. Maybe if a bent valve - but hydraulicing unlikely to do that.
Alan

So those 2 hole semi circular pieces at the CV are called moon plates. Learned a new part name!

If the solenoid isn't engaging as well when the starter is under load, the big yellow starter wire could be an issue - if it still follows the factory routing all the way from the ignition switch, past the starter, to the engine, and back again....... since you don't have any need for the power it provided to various CIS kludges you could snip it off mid-route and put it directly to the starter. Or it could have a poor connection somewhere. It does also point to (perhaps) a voltage drop issue.

Triple check the ground strap to chassis connection. Clean and tight. Same goes for the battery end.

A fully and freshly charged battery is a good idea at this point even if it's new.

One way to rule out voltage drops is to put the battery on a charger while you're cranking it.
The charger will provide enough voltage to compensate for the natural voltage drop associated with cranking.

It's also worth noting that I'm pretty sure the rear wiper is inop during cranking. So using its power source for ignition may never start the car. (Not all switched power sources have power during cranking.)

As for the despair of long-term build setbacks...

We all have them. I generally take a break from the project until I feel better. Like emotionally refreshed.
Then, I start with small projects I know I'll succeed at. Build a little momentum, and I'm back up to speed in no time. It's incredible what a little time to reflect and relax can do. Plus it provides time for the Pelican Brain Trust to offer some perspectives/possibilities/reassurances.

Thanks all.

I think next steps will be to finish up some stuff in the frunk so I have less random wires.

I had held off on reinstalling the wipers etc., but I think it would be good to get more momentum and cross stuff off the list.

Let the back end of the car chill out for a bit...

I love this thread and we all feel your pain.

One of my most memorable car fixin' moments came when I was elbow deep into repairing my Landcruiser to the point where it would never run again unless I fixed it or had it towed to a mechanic with a box full of parts and a red face.

It took me a few days of determined, "this thing won't beat me", "I could never stand the embarrassment", moments to hunker down and get it right.

I learned some valuable lessons. Take your time, quit working when you start to get tired or frustrated and ask for help. You'll get there.

A starter spinning an engine with no compression vs one with plugs in is a big difference in load. They are going to behave as two completely different scenarios.

That's what I was thinking.

I still have my old OEM starter. I'm guessing the new imi starter got hot and doesn't fully extend under load.

Not sure if that is plausible, but maybe?

Must be about time for an update? Hope things are looking a little brighter!

Need some Mickey update pics pls. :)

Not a ton to report. I did get the headlights mounted and started bolting up the smile.

The starter gear does not extend like 'normal' starters. The solenoid throws a lever which shunts it out. I doubt there is a tight spot on the starter gears (not impossible, but not the most likely place to look).
I would be looking at the high load electrics first. If it is straining, then each compression hump is going to look like a tight spot. I have my fingers crossed you don't have a major issue. Thats where my money is anyway. Tidy up some other stuff and come back to it later - as others have said. Often a fresh look at a problem gets to the answer.
Alan

Thanks Alan, that's my thought as well. Right now I'm going to focus on everything except for starting the engine.

I should be able to make some progress this weekend, then it will be laying low until first week of May after personal tax season (in Canada) is done.

Small Update. April 30 (tax filing deadline) was on Saturday, so deadline became Monday.

Celebrated with my staff a bit too hard so Tuesday was a write-off.

Wednesday I drained the oil and started the process of dropping the engine to investigate status of starter ring gear.

Rest of Wednesday was packing for a family trip to Mexico.

Plan is to investigate starter gear, ensure plenty of volts to ignition system the sort the rest of the wiring. Multiple wiring questions coming this weekend...

Until then, I'll have to male do with my current non-Porsche view.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652125442.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652125442.jpg

You must have got a bigger refund than me!!

JK. I know you've been hard at it. Enjoy the reward! Looking forward to helping from afar with the Project when you are back.

Made some progress today. I got my fuel pump wiring sorted out and figured out I was missing the power window relay harness, so I ordered up a new harness and a pair of new relays from RD.

Next, I dropped the motor and transmission and removed the starter. I took a peak at the the starter gear, and as I suspected, it didn't look great.

Separated the trans from the engine and saw the damage in all its glory.

Here's my theory on what took place. When the engine hydro locked, the high torque IMI starter took out its frustration on the poor starter ring, either bending or knocking off a tooth. The problem just got worse, and the clunking sound I heard when cranking was the starter gear contacting the inside of the transmission.

Sucks to have to replace parts, but the upside is there isn't major carnage. I'm thinking of double checking the cam timing while the engine is out just in case that's why it didn't fire.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652571119.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652571119.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652571119.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652571119.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1652571119.jpg

Welcome back!