H4 LED HELP - changing from chrome to painted rings

FA-18C · 05-14-2022, 12:03 PM

So I got all excited and prepped and painted a set of H4 trim rings. They are based and cleared, and while they flash and dry, I figured I would take a headlight out and prep for any install.

Well clearly I do not know what I am doing and the result was essentially disassembly of the light from the ring. I guess that was inevitable to change out the rings, but before I take down the other headlight, I want to make sure I can get everything back together.

I searched the site for links but have come up short. I have the other that I can try and use as a reference on round two, but it is always nice to have a go by. They are Audette lights - was surprised there is not a reference for how to re-assemble with all of the metal clips etc...

Anyone with any references or tips - all are welcome.

FA-18C · 05-14-2022, 12:48 PM

Panic is fading - after removing the other, I at least have a template for the rebuild. Have it laid out, waiting for another 45 minutes before rebuilding.

FA-18C · 05-15-2022, 06:16 AM

Spent 5 hours yesterday smashing my face against the wall trying to fit these lights with the new trim rings. My wife helped hold the light to rebuild with the clips, but the rings just seem to be slightly too small and will not fully seat. I have read others that had the same fight, but seem to keep the solution a state secret. I am close to just sanding, priming and painting the chrome trims that did fit.

Mark Salvetti · 05-15-2022, 06:58 AM

I thought the painted trim rings were designed to go over the chrome. The chrome ring stays but gets covered by the painted ring. If you go to Audette’s website, that’s what he sells. And 20% off this month.

Where did you get your painted trim rings?

Mark

FA-18C · 05-15-2022, 07:02 AM

Mark, these are replacement rings to the chrome, not the covers. He also sells these.

Mark Salvetti · 05-15-2022, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FA-18C

Mark, these are replacement rings to the chrome, not the covers. He also sells these.

Ah, sorry. Didn't realize that. I went with the chrome rings, since my 1979 has chrome trim.

Have you tried emailing John? He's pretty responsive.

Mark

Ralph3. · Ralph3.'s Garage

So the LED lights don't use the trim rings like regular H4's?

FA-18C · 05-15-2022, 06:20 PM

I am not using the covers, just painted mounting rings. (Could call that mistake one...). The aftermarket H4 rings are made from stamped steel and do not have the give of the older trim rings. Add new seals and you need to widen the lip a tad bit at the top to get a proper catch on the rim, and then may have to grind back the ring lip that catches on the headlight bucket. Once I tackle the stripped tab with a speed nut or rivnut, I think I can get this sorted in an hour or so...

Have some fasteners coming tomorrow and WED, so will do some fit tests between now and then and cross my fingers. May pivot to installing transmission mounts and engine mounts.

On the positive side, all of the fussing has added some patina to my freshly painted rings so they match my 34 year old paint

Mark Salvetti · 05-15-2022, 07:50 PM

Don't forget to Zip tie the headlight to the wiring or a hole in the bucket in case all your fussing isn't good enough and they come loose.

Mark

FA-18C · 05-16-2022, 05:43 PM

Spoke too soon. This is the most frustrating thing I have done on a 911 in 20 years. The headlight rings are just plain crap.I am throwing in the towel and changing back out to the chrome rings - might just sand them down and paint them and install - I know they fit. There is a 2.4 to 5mm difference in the replacement parts. Never had a chance and do not feel like beating the hell out of them.

RSTarga · 05-17-2022, 10:40 AM

Without pictures it is hard to know what you are trying to do. The paintable trim rings go OVER the chrome rings and are attached by a special screw that is fitted to the chrome ring. The trim rings go on AFTER the headlights have been installed on the car.

FA-18C · 05-17-2022, 11:06 AM

RS - I know this, and chose (poorly) to change out the chrome mounting rings with painted for the H4s. I did not want to use the painted trim rings that go OVER. So I purchased one for one replacements for the chrome assembly and mounting rings, painted them, assembled, and the punch line is that they are dimensionally too small. Aftermarket issue. I have now made the decision to reassemble with the chrome that fit fine and mount, and then paint and install the overlays - IF they fit. The aftermarket are made of stamped steel and are just too small by a couple of mm, and too rigid to adequately seat. Have done every octafluguron possible - they are just too small, and I do not feel like hammering the buckets to adjust. So on to plan B. Communicating with the manufacturer to get a return - finger's crossed.

Inherited the current set-up, and like the Audette lights, but the drunk/hungover german engineer who designed the headlight mount is not on my Christmas card list.

FA-18C · 05-20-2022, 06:50 PM

Still struggling to get the original lights back with the chrome mounting rings installed. This is as close to rolling the car to the curb and setting it on fire as I have come. The mounting rings are just crap fit and hours and hours of fiddling it getting me nowhere. Short of malting these on for a permanent install, there has been scant insight other than some "I eventually figured it out..."

The mounting rings just do not want to fit over the headlight bucket flange no matter what I try.

I'd really like to get lights back on so I can drive my dang car again.

Mark Salvetti · 05-20-2022, 09:43 PM

Chris,

I know you said they fit adequately before you tried changing the rings - are you using the same gaskets or new ones? I know some gaskets are thinner than others. Maybe try fitting the lights without gaskets first.

Otherwise do you think you somehow didn't reassemble them properly?

I have a set of Audettes that are still in boxes - let me know if you think some photos would help you.

Mark

FA-18C · 05-21-2022, 04:16 AM

Morning Mark - if you can take a couple of shots of the assembled lights and the clips, that "might" help. I have read every posting and thread on here and reenlist, and for whatever reason, these are fighting me. I would rather have to replace all of my fuel lines again than do this...

FA-18C · 05-22-2022, 01:56 PM

So after taking a break from bashing my face against this brick wall, I spent SAT in 100 degree heat installing Rennline transmission mounts, Wevo engine mounts, and replacing the gasket and hose on one of my heater flapper boxes. Long hot and messy day, but it was good to get a win on the freaking board.

Refreshed by that, I took my lights apart, tweeted the lip on the light rim to give a better bite, reassembled and they are at least installed. Still not happy overall, but they work. Overall perspective:

- I believe that the H4 mounting rings are not well dimensioned for my 1988 car. Perhaps there is a slight variance between years, but these should be plug and play, as advertised.
- URO aftermarket rings are really nice quality, but despite the "Guaranteed Fit" - not a chance on my 88 unless some serious alterations take place. I chose to go back to chrome and have ordered cover trim which I will paint.
- Part of the fitment issues with the Audette lights is the placement of the parking lamp center front of the light bucket. This interferes with the lower mount bracket point and is sensitive to the length of the mounting screw as well. In my opinion a pretty crappy design - this should be moved back about an inch.
- Neither trim ring is fully seated over the fender light bucket flange - something I will tackle over the summer when I am less frustrated. They are in, work and I do not drive in the rain, so OK for now.
- Build up is a pain. Easiest way I found to align everything is to use an old trim ring upside down with a tool underneath. This allowes alignment of the lens in the mounting ring, you can then place the light assembly over the lens and gasket. Install the thinnest clips top and bottom, then alternate to keep alignment of the ring and assembly. After 5 round trips, it gets easier. Once this is done you can install the adjustment screws on each side. When I took the lights out, I marked the adjustment on each light assembly - will adjust sometime this week.
- Installing in the car - I went ahead and bent back the tabs at 7 and 1. This helped with clearance. With the parking lamps, you need to carefully insert the bottom offset from the 6 o'clock mounting tab, then rotate into alignment. (Before building the lights, I marked the ring and fender at the top for alignment with the mounting screw. Also, over time fitting the rings, I found that carefully bending the top flange out a bit helps with catching at the top. Just a tad.
- Both rings fit well without the light build, I suspect the mounting clips block fully seating in some areas. They are on pretty solid, so are fine for now. I am happy to leave them as is until I get paintwork done and will let the body guy sort out the rest.

Over for now, and glad of it. This was the closest I have come to rolling a car to the curb and lighting it on fire. Self-inflicted to be sure, but a crappy design all around.