John (FISHCOP) I need your help my sporto has given up on me !

[jk911]

O.K Ive asked you all the questions regarding my sporto playing up on me !! and now its done it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't get out of gear when the car is at idle. 1st, 2nd or reverse if the car is at a stand-still it won't come out of gear. Also the idle is erratic and everything is pointing towards a servo vacuum problem.

It drives O.K as long I don't change gears at idle speed.

I have no option now but to repair it. So here goes !

Before I rush to a mechanic I want to see if I can repair it myself.

I will not drop the engine. I know its hard this way but still possible.

Before I get into the repair of the servo-vaccum unit . I want to know 1 thing:

1) will it be easy to adjust the clutch lever of the servo unit once replaced ?



O.K

Firstly how do I get to it i.e what needs to be removed from the car to gain access and secondly which connections are removed from the following diagram ??





Is there any reference information I can get other than Haynes Manual which is not very helpful ?

Thanks in anticipation.

P.s as for my new paint work its great Ill post some pic's. I need to re-adjust the positioning of the front bumper though ...it a bit off.

[Fishcop]

Oh dear.....

To get to the slave you will need to get the car as high as you can (tall jack stands) and use a creepy-crawly. You will need to remove the left drive shaft as there is no way you can get the servo out with it in place, plus it will give you some "swinging room".

There are three nuts to remove the bracket holding the servo (#16) they are 13mm (#17,18). You will need a long (2' 3/8th) extension to work across the top of the box to get to them.

Pin #22 needs to be removed. I found the split pin (#24) the hardest thing to get to and remove. Use side cutters but you will have very little room. Get one of those mirrors on an extension to help you see, but I found in the end it is better to close your eyes and work by feel once you understand the layout. Don't forget to separate the vacuum line from the servo (tricky depending on where the clamp is orientated). This is all you need to unfasten/remove to get the servo out.

As for adjusting the clutch lever? It can be done... in time In the end, I didn't have to adjust my clutch.

This is really a ba$tard of a job made whole lot easier if you can gain access to a hoist. But I am proof that it can be done on the garage floor.

John.... think really carefully about removing the engine and gearbox. Now is an ideal time to get rid of oil leaks/clean/repair all at once. I know it is daunting but you will be suprised how simple it is once you've done it.

I'll pm my mobile number to you in case you need to ask me anything.

Cheers

[jk911]

Thanks John

I will hopefully get started in the next week or so. How much time should I set aside ?

Apart from the diaphram which I now have, do I need to purchase anything else ?

Unfortunately I can't afford to drop the engine (and do all the work I want) at this stage as I will be going overseas on a couple of months (bad timing). I would still like to drive the car in the meantime.

Is there any way to test the servo unit in the car, ie suction on the tube ?

When you say raise the car high what would be the minimum height ?

As for the C.V joint should I remove the whole thing or just the tranmission side and hang it ?

Ohh another thing I noticed on my servo unit was a large hole on the side where #15 is, is this normal ?

Thanks again John
I have your details I might bother you when I get started .

[Fishcop]

It took me 2 hours to remove the servo.

You can easily test the unit in the car precisely as you suggested. The tube that comes from the servo passes through the firewall and connects to the valve sytem next to the left carby. Pull the tube off the valve and use some garden hose or similar to extend it's length. At this point you could use a vacuum testing tool which exerts a suction force and measures if it holds suction. Or you could just do as I did and suck on the end and see if it holds a vacuum. Mine would not hold vacuum and I knew then I'd have to remove it.

Take the whole shaft out, it just gets in the way otherwise.

As for purchasing other stuff... When you split the servo in half by removing the swage strip around the outside, you may well damage it beyond repair (thus the "non-rebuildable" title given it by Porsche). If you go back to the brake shop they will be able to fit a clamp system used in truck brakes to effect the repair. Other than that there is just some welding and filling to be done.

The hole is meant to be there and becomes obvious why when you have it out.

Cheers

[joehahn]

did you check the microswitch contacts on the shift lever? Mine was doing something similar right after a $3K rebuild (it was awful). the teeny tiny contacts that are so important to our whole operation weren't touching, hence stuck in gears. maybe not it but try the free fixes first...

joe 68 L (sporto)

(Hi John, car is running great now)

[Sean Hamilton]

Hi Jk,
I'm a keen novice in this area but I've learned 4 maintenance things about the Sporto:
1. Micro switches send the signal to the vacuum servo to disengage the clutch and therefore first thing to check.
2. Oil level MUST be topped up, but I'm not sure how critical the tolerance is in this to enable gear selection.
3. Oil seal leaks in and over the clutch plate will make the clutch sticky so that it doesn't want to disengage.
4. Vacuum servo leak (that you're currently tracing) wont disengaged the clutch.

Do you know John Shingleton up your neck of the woods? - He races a yellow 77 Sportomatic. (Aus boss of Harley-Davidson)

Good luck - Spoto's are becoming a rare breed - keep the faith.

[jk911]

Thanks guys

I have just replaced and adjusted the gearstick microswitch. It selects gears O.K its getting out of gear thats the problem (forward and back movements).

As for removing the servo -- what about #6 where does that go and is it hard to re-position it ?

John how did you spit the servo ? should I also take it the the brake shop to seal it up again when finished?

The other possibility I thought of was a leak in this thing ...


What do you guy's think ?

[joehahn]

nah, it's not usually that...that is the big welded reserviour (sp?) that holds reserve air to get you going when you first start etc. yank the hose at the valve (inside left carb) that disappears into the firewall and suck on it (as John described and explained to me). I did the same thing and that tells you a lot. If that holds air then disconnect the other one (that snakes under the left carb bank....suck on that one too. that is where my problem was. i fixed it with electrical tape for a while but, as you can imagine, that only lasts so long. keep me in the loop cuz now i am hooked.

joe 68 L

[jk911]

I am calling around all the brake and truck places I can find in sydney and Im not getting a very good response. Most people say they can't help or they will send it away.

They also say there sould be a large spring in there ? Any tips/ideas ?

[Fishcop]

Hi Guys

#6 comes away when you remove the pin.

Joe is right, it is very unlikely to be the reserviour. Sean's advice is worth following up, but from what you are describing, I think you have correctly identified the problem. Do the suck test.

(Hi Joe, I took my car to the track on Saturday.... what a blast! The sporto ran faultlessly and I think it gave me a little edge in some places as I could leave it in gear and concentrate on line - letting the torque converter do it's job).

[joehahn]

I have to add one more thing.... this was my best sporto testing device ever. Late at night, no helpers, trying to see if the clutch arm is moving commensurate with the stalk being manipulated (shifter lever). I take my extend-o dog leash and stretch it out, lock it in place. Tie the clip end around the shifter, throw the handle part out the targa roof, down back of car, around the exhaust and underneath to me (car on ramps). Turn the ignition, yank the leash and clutch was moving! I believe penicillin was invented this way too. Keep us posted on your results. John, glad car is working well!

joe 68 L

[jk911]

O.K I am extremly upset, frustrated and disheartened

It took me less than 1 hour to jack the car up, remove the 2 left CV joints and shaft, the 3 bolts holding the servo unit #17 in picture, and the vacuum line off the servo unit .

BUT THEN came the PROBLEM

That F #^%$^%$#$#@!@#$ stupid cotter pin #24 in the diagram. NO JOKE I spent 6 hours yes 6 hours trying to get it off and I failed so I gave up ! (the closest I have ever come to a nervous breakdown, and I am a very patient person)

I could get tools in there but using tools blind with one hand is not possible with me. I relied on my hands only. I could spin it around and I managed to close the slit of the pin and push it 1/2 way through. At the moment my car is still jacked up and the pin is half way out but I can't get the pin all the way out it gets stuck half way !

PLEASE offer some help or assistance I am in despirate need of it!

Is there any other way of removing it ?

I will not drop the engine, if it comes to it I will cut the bolt #19 and replace it with a new one. I tried unscrewing #21 but it does nothing as #19 cannot turn if #20 is fixed .

[jk911]

John,

I just saw your recent post from your track day. Very impressive! Your sporto is a big motivating factor in persevering with my problem & repairing it !

I look forward to your reply !

[Fishcop]

Following our phone conversation....

I think cutting the rod (#19) with a dremel is probably your best bet if you can't get that splitpin out. Rather than replacing it afterwards, it will probably weld back together okay.

Goodluck!

[joehahn]

whoa whoa whoa....chill. I've been there my man. I have to ask...why not drop the engine? Believe me, I am a total novice and have also relied on John and others to help with sporto (albeit the 2-5 others that own them!). Here's my thinking on engine drop... When i went to pick up my car the mechanic that fixed decided that "it wasn't right" and dropped the engine for another quick adjust. It took him literally 25 minutes. I know I have an older car, few oil lines, wires, etc but I seriously thought as this occurred, I am a semi-intelligent guy with 2 working hands why can't I do this? Just drop it and get a good look at it. If you screw it up you have to have it towed anyway. when mechanic was dropping the engine whilst i stood there he noticed that i was in awe and remarked "it's just 4 bolts". again, please keep me in the loop as I am waiting to hear what happens. sporto is dying breed, let's stay tight...

joe

(john help this guy out...send him shark pics, etc for inspiration!)

[Fishcop]

Joe, I tried.... I spoke to JK today and he is just not going to drop the engine. I assured him of the simplicity, I actually suggested that he try at least a partial drop so he had clearance.

JK explained he's real busy and just can't commit at the moment. I know how that can be. I wish I was closer (there's 600 miles between us) I'd be able to assist.

[jk911]

Thanks for your words of confidence guy's and thanks for your help over the phone John.

Don't get me wrong about dropping the engine I will do that as I plan to rebuild the engine towards the end of the year. I have very limited time at the moment and I expected the job to be 2 hours of so.

Anyway I have been shopping and armed myself with side cutters, loops, needles, small pliers, tweesers etc. I will try again tomorrow and hope for the best.

The thing is just hanging there and If it beats me Ill just bolt it back on and drive it to the mechanic.

Also as for dropping... its more the prepwork and planning that takes a lot of time too, mines fuel injected with air conditioning, I need a new jack I need a crate to place the engine on, I need new jack stands etc. I know its easy and when i eventually do it I will kick myself for not doing it earlier.

O.K look If tomorrow fails I will look into and consider.... dropping the engine. You have convinced me (or visa versa)

[jk911]

Update:

I managed to get the servo vacuum unit off the car. I had to cut the bolt i.e



So now I have to find a replacement or weld it!

The good news is that the servo is fine.... it holds vacuum well and holds pressure well, I can't find any leaks (all that wasted time) anyway its a process of elimination. Here is a pic



Next thing I looked at was the control valve :

1st problem = its was hanging on two loose bolts, one had pulled its threads.

2nd problem = when I blew air into the servo connection I could hear a slight air leak !

So I suspect that I have identified my problem (cross my fingers).

I took the unit apart.... it was real easy to diassemble look at these photo's.




I found some bad air tight seals on the control plunger and on the solenoid plunger at the back.

I sanded the sealing discs with 2000 wet sandpaper to a smooth finish and reasembled with silicone gasket glue.

Now its all air tight .

Now I just have to fix that servo bolt and start putting my car back together.

[Langers]

jk911,

What jack and jack stands are you using, and where did you get them?
I've looked around at a few places in Sydney (mainly on Northern Beaches) and can't seem to find any decent quality items. I've settled on a couple of 3000kg stands and an 1800kg jack but somehow I don't think they will last, and the jack doesn't really lift high enough.

[jk911]

I didn't drop the engine !

Nothing special, just your ordinary repco type stands.

It is not jacked up all that high (hard to work under) but its high enough.

As for the Jack I used a pile of timber floor boards underneath the jack to raise it higher !

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I had the bolt welded yesterday but it not exactly straight. Do you think this may pose a problem ?

What is the best way to adjust the clutch release now that i have lost the adjustment from the servo unit ?