My 1977 911 S widebody backdate project

[PcarPhil]

Here is my current project - a 1977 911S. The car is being backdated to an earlier longhood widebody and will be powered by an '86 euro-spec 3.2 engine and 915 trans with LSD. I'm shooting for a lightweight wide ST look vs. all out RSR.

Here's what I started with:

RS rear flares, turbo tail. Interesting combo. The project began about 15 minutes after I purchased the car!


The PO had installed seat covers over the pretty cool stock seats.


Stock '77 2.7 engine. I was actually impressed how well this engine pulled.


Interesting ride stance.




I bought this car for the chassis after stumbling on it locally. After spending a half a day looking over the chassis and finding it to be very clean it's made a great foundation for my widebody longhood project! Cheap, galvanized, nonsunroof, rust free....perfect!


I'd also like to give an early THANKS! to those that have helped with this project in one way or another:
Tana, Rick V, DL Lawrence, 86911TLCAB, 83targa, Pelican, Dave at TRE, Peter at Rennspeed, Jim at TruDesign, jwernquist, Jack Olsen, 175k911, Rick K, Stoddards, Elephant Racing, Bill Verburg, and everyone else who has paved the way before me! THANKS!!!

[PcarPhil]

Here's the same car a few weeks later. These pics are of early stages of this driveable project (I don't want the car to be undriveable at any point for more than a month or two):

The rear flares will eventually be butt welded to the quarters.


The remaining drivers side flag mirror will be replaced with an early mirror.


Currently running 9x16 front Fuchs with 245/45-16 tires. I'll also be adding a lower front spoiler to the wide S front bumper.


Euro spec 3.2 with partially backdated heat and no A/C. Custom engine lid prop.


Minimal rear wiring harness. Engine console is simply being used to support the harness. No rear fuses for accessories.


Umm...yeah...I need to do something about that rear bumper. Notice the stock '77 engine lid gasket remains.


Here you can see my temporary hood latch release extension.


My 14" Fuchs space saver spare. I believe this is the smallest, lightest spare combo that will fit over Carrera front brakes. I also added some foam to fill in the void between the early front bumper and the later front bulkhead.

[kach22i]

1. Something about your 3.2 looks different, what year is that engine and what mods?

2. I've never seen a spare like that, nice. Car would be lighter without it though.

3. Backdated to long-hood, very nice - like the widebody of course.

4. No rear fusebox/power supply?

5. Plans for a Ducktail?

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by kach22i

1. Something about your 3.2 looks different, what year is that engine and what mods?

2. I've never seen a spare like that, nice. Car would be lighter without it though.

3. Backdated to long-hood, very nice - like the widebody of course.

4. No rear fusebox/power supply?

5. Plans for a Ducktail?

1. It's an '86 3.2 with a partially backdated heat system, no A/C, euro P + C's, 964 cams, SW chip, euro pre-muffler, and currently M&K muffler. I'm going to have to do something about the muffler/bumper combo though. They both want to be in the exact same place (hence the hacked up current bumper)

2. Yep you're right - the spare is extra weight. With a fully fiberglass front end though I'm using the battery and spare as weight ballast!

3. Thanks! I've put a bunch of time into the bodywork and still have a bunch of work to do. I'm at the point where I can drive the car and continue to work on the project...

4. No rear fusebox needed with my very minimal wiring harness. I'm just using the console to hold the 14-pin engine connector.

5. Yes I also have a ducktail. I'll be swapping back and forth.

[TRE Cup]

Scott
tip on the front hood: since the extra length of the long hood puts the safety catch somewhat out of reach. You can cut and splice in a piece of flat stock on the hook so it allows more room for the hood to open . That way you still have the safety and can get your hand up there to release the hook.

[Rich76_911s]

Looks great Scott. We are going to have to find another solution for that flag mirror though. Keep us posted on the progess. Is the hood Fiberglass?

Rich

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

Looks great Scott. We are going to have to find another solution for that flag mirror though. Keep us posted on the progess. Is the hood Fiberglass?

Rich

Rich,

The hood is a Getty fiberglass hood for backdated cars.

Re: the flag mirror - I've got to weld up the holes on both doors that will be leftover from flag mirror removal. Then I'll add an early mirror on the drivers side and possibly on the passenger side as well.

[PcarPhil]

Here's a general overview of the project:

-'77 911S chassis. Non sunroof, non A/C, manual windows, accident and rust free shell with 85k miles.
-'86 3.2 engine built to euro spec along with 964 cams, SW chip.
-Carrera cooler and lines.
-9&11x17 Fuchs aka 'big wheels'.
-8&9x15 Fuchs aka 'street wheels'.
-Elephant polybronze suspension bushings soon to be installed. Rennline monoballs installed in the trailing arms.
-19/27 TB's and Bilsteins soon to be installed.
-Adjustable F + R swaybars soon to be installed.
-Metal rear 930 flares. Will be slightly reshaped and butt welded.
-Getty fiberglass backdate hood, RSR front fenders, and ducktail. TRE sourced front bumper. A Rennspeed rear bumper will be replacing the current hacked up GT Racing rear bumper.
-Backdated mirror(s) coming soon.
-H4 headlamps, repro front turn signal housings. Horn grilles coming soon.
-Carrera front brakes soon to be installed.
-'86 915 with factory LSD.
-Rennshift shifter, brass bushing'd shift coupler.
-Wevo engine and trans mounts.
-Partially backdated heat.
-Recaro SRD seats for now. Drivers side seat offset towards center of the car to make the seat more in line with the steering wheel.

[PcarPhil]

Random pics:

Initial fitment of the rear flares. Notice I used a 930 flare extension to help line things up:


This pic shows the area where the rear reflector panel used to be. I left the attachement points for the engine lid seal (most people remove this, though I'm not sure why...)


Here is a bracket I made for the drivers side Recaro SRD. The bracket offsets the seat so the seat is more in line with the steering wheel.

[PcarPhil]

Here's a bit of background history. There are a few cars that inspired this project.

The first is Black Beauty II. That car is simply amazing. Baby got back!


The second is my first 911 - a 1971 911T. I was bitten by the 'shiny Porsche syndrome' with this one. Well...that and the sound of the carbs was simply intoxicating.




My '71 was going to be the basis of my widebody longhood project. Unfortunately the project started off as a rustoration. I hate rust. I despise rust. Everytime I dug deeper into the chassis I found more rust. Eventually I decided to abandon the idea of using the '71 chassis and find something more solid to work with. 2 chassis' later I've got my fully galvanized '77 chassis.

After learning about Jacks car I started heavy research on the the almighty RSR's:




As I continued to research early 911's I came across the ST models. I really started to like the ST's:




An even wider ST:


My project car will end up having design influences from all the above. Stay tuned...

[EarlyPorsche]

Thats an amazing project. I love the minimalist approach, thats why I used a bare bones 912 to house the built 2.0 I have. Stock body on mine though, I couldn't cut up a stock 66 body. However, I love your look. I think satin light blue or green would look amazing on that body.

Only problem I see is, and I think this with everyone that does this, is that you have poor weight balance now. I would keep as much steel and weight in the front as possible to counter the rear. I would put on a stock looking carbon fiber stock decklid to take some weight off the back (of course paint it). I don't mean to criticize, its an amazing car you got there! In fact if you want to sell it let me know!

Oh and the stock decklid look is SO MUCH MORE IN than a ducktail. Looks great!

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by EarlyPorsche

Thats an amazing project. I love the minimalist approach, thats why I used a bare bones 912 to house the built 2.0 I have. Stock body on mine though, I couldn't cut up a stock 66 body. However, I love your look. I think satin light blue or green would look amazing on that body.

Only problem I see is, and I think this with everyone that does this, is that you have poor weight balance now. I would keep as much steel and weight in the front as possible to counter the rear. I would put on a stock looking carbon fiber stock decklid to take some weight off the back (of course paint it). I don't mean to criticize, its an amazing car you got there! In fact if you want to sell it let me know!

Oh and the stock decklid look is SO MUCH MORE IN than a ducktail. Looks great!

Thank you for the compliments!

I don't disagree with you about the weight distribution and in fact I was very nervous about this before I drove the car for the first time. Strangely enough it doesn't feel bad at all, even with the stock '77 torsion bars. I think this is partly due to the wide front wheels?

The new weight distribution seems most noticeable when powering out of a corner. The front gets pretty light.

I'm planning on tuning around these characteristics with torsion bar rates, specifically in the rear. I think I'm going to start with a 19/27 combo.

I don't really want to increase the front spring rate much, if any. Increasing the rear spring rate should help offset the new weight distribution of the car.

Oh yeah....I'm very open to suspension tuning suggestions for this project car!

[Tim K]

If you've got an adjustable rear anti-roll bar, I'd try increasing the rear roll rate (which increased oversteer) before buying any parts and see how you like it.

Your car looks like it'd be a blast to drive.

Tim K

[wachuko]

Subscribed.... very cool project.

[Doug&Julie]

Subscribed! Looking great!

[POORSH]

subscribed...

[w21055]

Scott,

Any update?
Hood looks great on there and I am curious on your mirror change.

Phil

[Kevin Stewart]

wow looks great, i am looking at wheels as we speak can you tell me what flares they are? are they just standard turbo flares, Kevin

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by w21055

Scott,

Any update?
Hood looks great on there and I am curious on your mirror change.

Phil

Phil,

Recently progress has been slow. I've been helping a fellow Pelican with his widebody project so my own has taken a back burner.

In my spare spare time I have managed to try a few things. I've added a drivers side 934 mirror, added my ducktail from my previous silver SC (I like to swap engine lids occasionally), and have been working on the front 9x17 wheels.

I've also been researching torsion bar rates. This is primarily a street car so I don't want to get too crazy with spring rates. I think I've settled on a 21/27 combo.

The suspension work is next on my list of things to do, then I'll be getting back on the bodywork.

Oh yeah....I guess the most interesting update (to me anyways) is we've had a lot of great driving weather here in VA. I've been driving my project car every chance I get! It's an absolute blast to drive!

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin Stewart

wow looks great, i am looking at wheels as we speak can you tell me what flares they are? are they just standard turbo flares, Kevin

Kevin,

The rear flares are standard Dansk 930 flares that have been reshaped slightly. The front fenders are Getty RSR fenders.

I've come to realize the Getty RSR fenders are not actually 'RSR' shaped, at least mine aren't. My Getty front fenders are shaped like early longhood fenders with 930 flares. The GT Racing flares seem more correct in terms of RSR style. Regardless I like the look of 930ish flares front and rear (and actually prefer the 930 front shape vs. RSR).

The rear wheels are 11x17 Lindseys. Currently the fronts are 9x16 Fuchs, soon to be replaced by 9x17 TruDesign wheels.