1984 911 Carrera M491 - Sunroof Works Without Keys

[DadBodFacade]

I recently repaired my sunroof after a cable broke, and noticed when the repair was complete the sunroof will open even if I do not have the ignition on nor keys in the ignition. I don't recall this behavior before, and I didn't touch any when I fixed please send roof cabling.

I've already checked all of the relays in the boot, as well as the fuses. The center of continues to operate even if I remove all of the relays. Additionally, I did some research and believe there is a relay underneath the driver seat next to the computer, I removed that and the sunroof continued to work.

I looked behind the fuel gauge on the dashboard accessing through the boot, I found one relay which I removed and the sunroof still worked. I found another relay port that did not have a relay in it so now I'm intensely curious as to what goes there (see pic).

I've also confirmed the sensors in the door are functional and the interior lights due turn off when I close the doors.

I seem to have looked everywhere indicated for the sunroof relay and cannot find it. I'm assuming the relay is malfunctioning and simply not opening when needed. Would love to solve this so I don't have parasitic drain on the battery.

Any ideas?

[wazzz]

This is controlled by the power windows relay and therefore should have the exact same behavior as the power windows themself.
Don't know what the expected behavior is for an 84, so check how and when you can control power windows (and sunroof) when ignition key is removed.
Can you still operate them only when all doors are closed or only when a door or two is open? As I said, this varies with the year.

I believe your car is fine and behaves as designed.

[darrin]

dadbdfacade -- Following up on Gilles's comment above -- on my US model 1986, the expected behavior is for the power windows to work after turning off the ignition AND before opening a door (driver's or passengers) but to stop working after a door (driver's or passengers)has been open. The door openings are sensed by the same door switches that turn on interior lights when the door's opened. I have a targa, so can't directly comment on the sunroof.

When my driver's door switch got dirty, it would no longer cause the interior lights (dome light and glove box) to turn on when the driver's door opened and my power windows operated all the time. Since an energized relay enabled this circuit to operate, the power needed to keep this relay energized placed a small additional drain on my battery. Until I discovered this drain and fixed the door switch, my battery would discharge within a week or so.

SO, confirm whether opening either/both of your doors causes your dome light/glove box light to illuminate. In my case, the driver's door switch had failed but the passenger door switch still worked. Opening the passenger door would both illuminate the dome light and (with the ignition off) render my power window circuit inoperative while opening the driver's door would not. Fixing the driver's door switch returned operation (and battery drain) to normal.

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by darrin

dadbdfacade -- Following up on Gilles's comment above -- on my US model 1986, the expected behavior is for the power windows to work after turning off the ignition AND before opening a door (driver's or passengers) but to stop working after a door (driver's or passengers)has been open. The door openings are sensed by the same door switches that turn on interior lights when the door's opened. I have a targa, so can't directly comment on the sunroof.

.

Two 1986 911's here and this is the same behavior I have. Until you open the doors after shut down they all will operate.


Erik

[fallingat120mph]

...Sorry forgot to post the rest.

You might want to check the door sensors. The reason I wrote was to say I had similar issues but it was years ago. I carefully removed both sensors and one was heavily corroded. I did replace both from another car and things seem to go back to normal.

I am pretty sure one of the door sensors was either always open or closed (not an electronics expert) but that mayyyyy??? have remedied the issue.

What I do remember was the relay under the dash (in the trunk behind the dash) was always warm/hot to the touch until I fixed everything...or opened and closed the door on the good side.

Same as darrin from above post it appears.


Food for thought-
Erik

[john walker's workshop]

Battery draw with the activated relay, so clean the door switches.

[wazzz]

Originally Posted by darrin

dadbdfacade -- Following up on Gilles's comment above -- on my US model 1986, the expected behavior is for the power windows to work after turning off the ignition AND before opening a door (driver's or passengers) but to stop working after a door (driver's or passengers)has been open. The door openings are sensed by the same door switches that turn on interior lights when the door's opened. I have a targa, so can't directly comment on the sunroof.

When my driver's door switch got dirty, it would no longer cause the interior lights (dome light and glove box) to turn on when the driver's door opened and my power windows operated all the time. Since an energized relay enabled this circuit to operate, the power needed to keep this relay energized placed a small additional drain on my battery. Until I discovered this drain and fixed the door switch, my battery would discharge within a week or so.

SO, confirm whether opening either/both of your doors causes your dome light/glove box light to illuminate. In my case, the driver's door switch had failed but the passenger door switch still worked. Opening the passenger door would both illuminate the dome light and (with the ignition off) render my power window circuit inoperative while opening the driver's door would not. Fixing the driver's door switch returned operation (and battery drain) to normal.

Darrin and Erik, the behavior you describe matches earlier models. My car is an 88 and has exact opposite behavior, which is confirmed by a pic of the user manual I posted in another thread yesterday. Ignition off or key removed, windows can be operated only when opening a door, as opposed to you guys being able to operate windows only when all doors are closed.

According to Bentley, there are three different diagrams for power windows (and sunroof). One is titled 1984, another one 1985 and a third one is titled 1986-1989. From what you both describe, Bentley is probably wrong and should have titled 84, 85-86 and 87-89. Your cars seem to belong to the mid-year category as far as power windows are concerned.
The very first category (1984) seems to just ignore door switches. Windows can probably be operated only when ignition key is in On or Acc.