The Dr. Jeckyl & Mr. Hyde of Porsche

[turbo dave]

I was watching a Porsche commercial last night, and it occured to me that Porsche has split into two companies: the marketing/business side, and the engineering/car-making side. The engineering side seems to me to be the same amazingly capable team that it has always been, but the marketing/business side has become something that I truly dislike.

Look at the cars- the Carrera GT, the 911 GT3, even the engineering of the Cayenne S is absolutely spectacular, equal to anything they've ever done. The GT3 race cars still dominate their class pretty much everywhere they race.

Then, just when I start to get excited about the modern Porsche again, I see another commercial. There's the Cayenne/RV ad (message: Porsches are more fun to drive than huge RV's, what an accomplishment). There's the Cayenne/taxi ad (message: the Cayenne is more capable off road than a 20 year-old taxi, what an accomplishment). There's the Boxster/cell phone (oh my God! I've gotta go!) ad (which makes me embarrased that I like the Boxster). There's the Boxster/freight train ad (message: owning a sportscar is often frustrating, thanks for reminding me). The 996/roadside cleanup ad (three 996's drive up & down, grabbing trash out of the air, how inspiring). Finally, the one commercial I love- the Boxster/550 ad (message: the old cars are awesome, the new ones are designed for yuppie scum).

A couple points to take away from this- first, I think Porsche is turning away a generation of people that might have been their lifeblood in the future, by positioning itself as the dumb toy for smug, rich child-free corporate trendoids. Second, the core company is still great, difficult to remember when the business decisions Porsche makes are mostly enthusiast-hostile.

Third, since the current management is making every decision that we would fear from new owners if Porsche were to be bought out, what's the point in keeping Porsche independant? I think the company would benefit from being bought out- look at Maserati's renaissance under Ferrari, or Ferrari's success under Fiat. How about Lambourghini's resurgence under Audi, Audi's racing & product success under VW? Aston Martin was a shadow of itself until Ford took over, now look at it. I bet a Porsche under VW (or even Mercedes or BMW) would be awesome, returning to racing in a big way, updating their cars more often. I welcome it-

[masraum]

but the yuppie rich people are the current new car market. The enthusiasts like most of us that can afford a boxster S, GT3, GT2, or any other offering probably don't need a commercial to sell them, while the people buying these cars for status and feeding the company with lots of cash like those goofy commercials.

[Mr9146]

Turbo Dave, I like your ideas and points, but you've been blasphemous. Porsche owned by BMW or Mercedes?!?!?! Right, and Harley should sell out to Honda. Dude, as much as I agree with your points, you need to stop and think about the late 80's and mid-to-early 90s ... Porsche pulled themselves out of that slump, and they'll eventually pull out of this one. Even though the company is selling more cars than ever - despite the fact that they are rolling tin cans that will end up in the scrap yard in 10 years - for them to go public would DESTROY any and all heritage that we/Porsche have left. Please, don't speak of such nonsense in the future.

Oh, and Porsche owned by VW would be okay with me - think about where POrsche evolved from and it makes sense ... but not while VW owns Bugatti and Lambo. NEVER, I say, NEVER!!!

[turbo dave]

That's the thing- Porsche isn't in a slump, they're the most profitable car company in the world. They don't seem to care about promoting the company long-term, they are the worst of the modern corporate types- all short term profit, bump the stock up. I mean, even Toyota is in F1, give me a break!

No, I don't see any advantage to staying independant. Independant companies have to worry about cash flow every day- you don't see Ferrari worrying about cash flow. Big companies can afford long-term investments, to position themselves better competitively. Look at Aston Martin, their new 996-fighter has got to have Porsche panicked.

Thanks for saving Porsche, Weideking, time to go-

[Mr9146]

You don't see Ferrari worrying about anything because Ferrari never had to. There will always be a market for those cars. Being owned by Fiat allows Ferrari to make even more cars that are out of reach of the common man. And depite Porsche's yuppie scumbag association with the 996 cars, Ferrari is still more nose-in-the-air.

As for Weideking, well, we need to run him out of town and put the power back into the hands of Piech. Not VW, but Piech. Bring back the late 60s and early 70s ... that's when Porsche was Porsche.

Oh, and you'll never see Porsche in F-1 because on the nose-in-the-air mentality of the series. Granted, I like F-1 as much as the next guy, but look what happened when Porsche tried to join Indy.

[einreb]

I wish they would remove the 911 tag from the 996... it just seems wrong. I know this subject has been beat to death, but its just true. The 996 is an amazing car, but I'll never see it as a 911... fixing the headlights is not going to solve the problem.

They should then come out with a different evolution from the 993 and go back to air/oil cooled 911's (i know it ain't gonna happen) dont tell me they couldn't make a reliable 300 hp 911 that weighs in at less than 3000 lbs and meet emission standards. maybe 45k?

[thomschoon]

Originally posted by masraum
but the yuppie rich people are the current new car market. The enthusiasts like most of us that can afford a boxster S, GT3, GT2, or any other offering probably don't need a commercial to sell them, while the people buying these cars for status and feeding the company with lots of cash like those goofy commercials.

Very true, other than yuppies with cash why would you even develop an SUV? Porsche is a for profit company, either make money or get sold/fired. Personally, a new Porsche fills no void in my transportation requirements. Being too old or stupid to care about what the young blond on the corner thinks, I will stick with keeping a couple as a hobby/delayed gratification and drive a sensible car to work. I guess if you consider a BMW or MBZ as sensible

[BGCarrera32]

...look at Maserati's renaissance under Ferrari, or Ferrari's success under Fiat.

A BIG reason for Ferrari's turning around was exceptionally bright managemant by Luca di Montezemolo from '91 on. There is an example of a guy who knows how to motivate his workforce, and give the employees a goal. And FWIW, Fiat isn't doing so hot.

Ford also owns the majority share of Mazda, which is one of the weaker selling of the big Japanese imports...my point being that staying independant isn't necessarily a bad thing. Porsche is big enough to have the resources they need to get the job done, they just need the right decisions to make it stick long term, whatever those decisions may be.

-BG

[jazzbass]

Originally posted by turbo dave
A couple points to take away from this- first, I think Porsche is turning away a generation of people that might have been their lifeblood in the future, by positioning itself as the dumb toy for smug, rich child-free corporate trendoids.

I agree, but hasn't this been true for 20+ years? In the 80's - the original yuppie scum decade - Porsche sold 911s and 944s to any yuppie with the cash. They were pure status symbols and nothing else to these guys. Guys like us - you know, with religion - will always get annoyed with the yuppie factor. But remember, its the yuppies that subsidize our hobby by buying these things new, taking the big hit on depreciation, and selling them to us when a newer, cooler status symbol comes out. Personally, I can't waint to pick up a Boxster S in the mid teens. Should be in a couple years.

[s_wilwerding]

The one problem with all your comments is that you don't realize that Porsche is a business. In order to have money to develop things like the GT3 and the Carrera GT (which have been financed with cash, BTW), Porsche needs to make a profit. Now, the reason that Ferrari and Maserati and all the other old sports car manufacturers have been bought out is because they lost (and continue to lose) money at an astounding rate.

Ferrari has an annual racing budget of millions of dollars, and they come nowhere near financing that through their car sales. That's why Fiat is there - to pay for the luxury of Ferrari racing.

Now, I'm not saying that Porsche is making all the correct decisions, nor do I think that forsaking all factory supported racing is the thing to do. However, I do recognize that Porsche is in business to make money. As such, they deliver consumer sports cars (which most of you hate) and some GT race cars (which most of you seem to like). These cars, while expensive, are not so outrageously expensive as to be "Ferrari unaffordable". If you think that Porsches are expensive now, wait until they're bought out - then you can pay $300,000 for a "real 911" that Porsche doesn't care about making a profit on.

And to really heat things up, to those of you who think the only "real 911" is air-cooled - well, you're not going to be buying a new 911 for the rest of your lives. Air-cooling, while it had a tremendous run, is not possible with an engine that has four valves per cylinder. It's amazing that the Porsche engineers were able to extend air-cooling technology into the 90s, but it's old technology. Get over it.

I would also love to hear some of your suggestions as to what Porsche should do. Everyone thinks that Porsche should design cars like they did in the 70s. Unfortunately, with current safety and emissions regulations, that's not really possible. I think that Porsche has done an excellent job in designing cars that utilize new technology, have nice styling, and are competitive with modern sports cars.

Bottom line, Porsche has to make a profit in order to realize any of the racing dreams that you all think are so important. In order to do that, Porsche has to sell cars that people will buy. Since most of the people on this Board aren't willing to buy new Porsches, then Porsche needs to appeal to the buyers who are willing to buy new. If that market is the "yuppies", then, well, I guess they're the ones that will be financing the company. Keep in mind that there were quite a few yuppies buying Porsche Turbos in the mid-80s, a fact that many on this Board neglect to mention.

OK, that's enough. END RANT.

[targa911S]

I was part of a focus group before Cayenne and we were on them like a cheap suit for even THINKING about an SUV. We asked them for a new entry level car like 914 that would continue the sporting blood. Their explaination was that the average Boxster buyer was under 35, the average 911 buyer was 50+. So between 35 and 50 they were losing their client. Those people were buying SUV's of which Porsche had nothing to compare. We said why now? Ain't it a bit late to get into this market. Their answer was better late than never and would we rather see them put out an SUV or see them owned by General Motors? End of discussion. The real 911 died when the last 993 was built. Some feel that that death was a little earlier...like 1974.

[1fastredsc]

Actually, i only have one request, it would be nice to see porsche build another entry level sports car again (and not the boxter since it's a bit ugly). Like another 944, or a smaller displacement 911 with nothing but the bear essentials, heating, air conditioning, and a radio. Don't need psm, don't need sound deadening, don't need vario cam (no matter how cool it is), and don't need 1/2ton of leather (although leather is still appreciated). Or, maybe i'm crazy, but what about a modern day 912? water cooled, dual over head camed, flat four, maybe 2.7 or 2.5 liter. Now tell me that wouldn't be cool.

[s_wilwerding]

Originally posted by 1fastredsc
Actually, i only have one request, it would be nice to see porsche build another entry level sports car again (and not the boxter since it's a bit ugly). Like another 944

OK, you think the Boxster is ugly and the 944 is good looking!? I happen to think that the Boxster is one of the best-looking cars ever built, now or ever.

And for the 911 that's stripped down, Porsche already makes one - it's called a GT3. Granted, it's $100,000, but it's got everything that everybody on this board wants (or doesn't want, as the case may be). Of course, nobody on the board is going to buy one, so I guess they just like to complain.

[jazzbass]

Originally posted by s_wilwerding
The one problem with all your comments is that you don't realize that Porsche is a business. In order to have money to develop things like the GT3 and the Carrera GT (which have been financed with cash, BTW), Porsche needs to make a profit. Now, the reason that Ferrari and Maserati and all the other old sports car manufacturers have been bought out is because they lost (and continue to lose) money at an astounding rate.

Actually, that was exactly my point, even if I didn't explain it as well or in as much detail. If Porsche needs to build a truck to keep themselves afloat so they can built cars I like, then so be it. The reality is that just selling sports cars is a tough gig these days. This whole "tainting the marque" thing is a bunch of hooey, IMO.

[RickC]

How about a Lotus Elise/914 size/weight car? That could keep Porsche in its own arena and capture some of the ricer money too.

[JeremyD]

I have said that before - lotus elise sized/weight car. Boxter power. Big honking tires under meaningful flares. $30K tops.

[1fastredsc]

That was my original idea, not a 944, but something of entry level price. The most inexpensive car available from porsche is the boxter (which by the way isn't ugly, it's fugly) at about 40,000 for a base model. But what about those enthusiasts that don't care about "hand stitched interiors," sound deadening insulation, or anything else that doesn't contribute to a basic sports car's performance. I realize that the GT-3 is a stripped 911, but also has a bumped up redline, turbo motronic management, a slightly better variocam system (i think the valve followers are of some new radical design), and other things that i'm probably not aware of that aren't neccessary in a "real" sports car. I having nothing against the new cars, there technology is amazing, but the question is are they pratical in track/spirited driving application? I am a fan of water cooling, and the 944/68 is a hell of a lot better looking than any boxter, but no car looks better than a 80's 911 with an rsr widebody and a 934 engine.

[1fastredsc]

Originally posted by s_wilwerding
Of course, nobody on the board is going to buy one, so I guess they just like to complain.

They don't like to complain, it would just be nice if it were to be in a realistic price range. Even if i were to have the money for it it would be hard for me to justify getting it because i'd be beating on a 100k car on the track without a sponsor.

[Paul Thomas]

I don't understand why some get so worked up over Porsches current marketing. Porsche, in my eyes, is high performance car company. The Cayenne is a high performance car. It is not to my taste visually but i understand from friends that it is amazing to drive. There are some things that i don't like about the 996 as a whole, but my buddy has one and it is alot of fun to drive. I could easily option out a 996 to be a car i would buy.

The bottom line to me is, how does current Porsche policy, and marketing, effect my love for my 1970 hotrod, and others like it?
It doesn't.

I dont care for any of the cars that Volkswagen is making right now but i still want a '55 oval window beetle to restore. You can't please everyone and we are a very small segment of the population.

Paul

[Randy W]

I think Steve has made many several good points. The problem is that the 996 in stock form (especially Cabriolet) is not all that great looking. The Boxster looks pretty good to me, and the Lotus Elise looks alot better. Of course the main reason the Lotus Elise is not imported for street use in this country is because it looks so good! A consequence of a lack of impact protection I suppose, but why then do the new Ferraris look so good? Porsche has proven they can design a great looking car with the Carrera GT, why can't they transfer some of that to their other cars - I mean the styling changes made to the 2003 Boxster do not help! The GT3 is a great platform IMO - true dry sump engine and ready for the track - the kind of water cooled car Porsche should have been making all along (I suppose some were saying that about the '67 911S too!). Just make it look better, weigh less and you will have a real winner Porsche...