Need an electric heat option

[fastricky]

Hi all, the usual story - headers added to my car and tho' a heat exchanger is available and I have it installed, it's only made for one side (drivers) and is only powered by the motor fan. Suffice it to say heat is no where near sufficient.

So I'd like to supplement this with an electric heating option. NOT looking for some cheap and cheerful dashtop idea, would like something elegant that works as well as stock.

Any ideas or links? Danke - Rich

[Nditiz1]

I'm actually surprised you have this issue. I will sometimes only have one side pump heat as it can get toasty fast with 2. You could run the stock blower fan for heat to push more heat though your one HE. Other than that I'm not sure you going to find a lot that are cheap. Like CR has one in dev or maybe it's out.

[fastricky]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

I'm actually surprised you have this issue. I will sometimes only have one side pump heat as it can get toasty fast with 2. You could run the stock blower fan for heat to push more heat though your one HE. Other than that I'm not sure you going to find a lot that are cheap. Like CR has one in dev or maybe it's out.

Thanks, I will try using the blower fan with the current setup but am not expecting a home run. Full disclosure this is for a 912E that has been bored out to 2270 + headers + racing exhaust. The car is a longhood killer now, just need to get the heat sorted.

[roblav]

Try running a SWB 912 in dead of winter! Only two cylinders gave heat. A SWB 911 without a blower was a major step up.
Given that your 912E is also only using two cylinders, in NY, I'd say you need heat exchangers in both sides.

[fastricky]

Originally Posted by roblav

Try running a SWB 912 in dead of winter! Only two cylinders gave heat. A SWB 911 without a blower was a major step up.
Given that your 912E is also only using two cylinders, in NY, I'd say you need heat exchangers in both sides.

Sadly a passenger side exchanger isn't available. (Tangerine Racing headers/exhaust/HE, they only offer the one driver side HE).

[almostordinary]

following. will have none of the above options with my engine swap and will be looking for a good electric heat option as well.

[Schulisco]

What about an additional air heater like those from Webasto?
https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/heating-solutions/recreational-vehicles/air-heaters/
They come in several power stages starting from 2kW up to more than 5kW.

Another option: I know that "The Thing" (VW 181 alias "Kübelwagen") used to have an gas heater instead of HE. It was time switch controlled from the dash. Big advantage: You can heat the car while parking. And it's even more powerful than the HE. Refer e.g. to https://www.thingparts.com/gas-heater-complete-vw-thing/ and here's a video of the "Wheeler dealers" ages ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5pD8YV_u74

Why not retrofit the seats with electric heating? There are several kits available on the market. But this might be critical due to the limited electrical power of the generator.

Thomas

[Nditiz1]

Originally Posted by fastricky

Thanks, I will try using the blower fan with the current setup but am not expecting a home run. Full disclosure this is for a 912E that has been bored out to 2270 + headers + racing exhaust. The car is a longhood killer now, just need to get the heat sorted.

Oh wow! Yeah the type 4 fan is definitely not pumping the air of a 6.

[fastricky]

Originally Posted by Schulisco

What about an additional air heater like those from Webasto?
https://www.webasto-comfort.com/en-us/heating-solutions/recreational-vehicles/air-heaters/
They come in several power stages starting from 2kW up to more than 5kW.

Another option: I know that "The Thing" (VW 181 alias "Kübelwagen") used to have an gas heater instead of HE. It was time switch controlled from the dash. Big advantage: You can heat the car while parking. And it's even more powerful than the HE. Refer e.g. to https://www.thingparts.com/gas-heater-complete-vw-thing/ and here's a video of the "Wheeler dealers" ages ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5pD8YV_u74

Why not retrofit the seats with electric heating? There are several kits available on the market. But this might be critical due to the limited electrical power of the generator.

Thomas

Thanks for chiming in! I want to stay away from any gas powered heaters as my shop claims they are dangerous. The water heated units clearly aren't an option in an air-cooled Pcar, but I wondered if oil from the motor could work with this application? I have an external oil cooler so sorta the same idea maybe?

[Tremelune]

Start with the seats. They go a long way for everything but defrost.

For a NY winter, you're looking at a gas-powered (Webasto) solution or disappointment. Electric heater output is measured in kW, and I don't have great faith in the output of any 912 alternator to meet this demand—it's like 100A+.

If I were you I'd weld a simple box on the headers with a ring to attach heater hoses to...You might even be able to get away with leaving them on the car to do it. Like, thin sheet of metal, cut with snips and bent more or less by hand, tacked onto the headers in a few spots.

[fastricky]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

Start with the seats. They go a long way for everything but defrost.

For a NY winter, you're looking at a gas-powered (Webasto) solution or disappointment. Electric heater output is measured in kW, and I don't have great faith in the output of any 912 alternator to meet this demand—it's like 100A+.

If I were you I'd weld a simple box on the headers with a ring to attach heater hoses to...You might even be able to get away with leaving them on the car to do it. Like, thin sheet of metal, cut with snips and bent more or less by hand, tacked onto the headers in a few spots.

Yes it is looking like there aren't many options. But do note I won't be driving this car in extreme winter conditions (certainly no snow). For example, when I drove the car recently it was POURING rain, temp was around 50 degrees. It was coldish in the car and the windows all fogged up with no help from the heat/vents. So I'm looking to mitigate a situation like this mostly versus extreme cold. So hoping the existing system + a little help from an electric heater (plus larger alternator) will suffice for the driving I'll be doing.

[roblav]

Ask mb911 if he'd tig a simple box around your passenger side header.

[fastricky]

Originally Posted by roblav

Ask mb911 if he'd tig a simple box around your passenger side header.

Ah interesting idea, I looked up his shop. Might be an option thank you!

[roblav]

His stainless tig welding is the best I ever saw.

But... it seems to me the real problem for you is lack of air conditioning. Cold air cannot hold the level of moisture as warmer air. Back many decades ago, in the old air cooled cars, I used to carry a couple hand towels to wipe off the inside of the windows in 40-50 degree rainy weather. The cost of enjoyment!!

[Nditiz1]

When I briefly had a 914 engine in my 77, it was hooked up to an electric fan. I had the Y splitter going to each HE. The heat was excellent.

[roblav]

That 914 electric squirrel fan with Y splitter worked very well on 914s.

[porsche930dude]

I hear seat heaters work pretty good but that doesnt help the defrost situation

[famoroso]

At a minimum, apply Fog-X to the inner glass surfaces.

Good luck finding auxiliary electric heat. I do believe that Classic Retrofits abandoned their plans to develop one due to the aforementioned current draw.

Fabricating larger heater boxes and / retrofitting a more robust blower system may be your best path. Take a look at M&K headers with heater boxes for some ideas.

[Cairo94507]

I agree that adding seat heaters is a nice bonus when it is cold out.

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by fastricky

Thanks for chiming in! I want to stay away from any gas powered heaters as my shop claims they are dangerous. The water heated units clearly aren't an option in an air-cooled Pcar, but I wondered if oil from the motor could work with this application? I have an external oil cooler so sorta the same idea maybe?

I got the point from your workshop. But - those modern Webasto heaters are - if installation made properly of course - no danger. If this would be the case, nobody would install them anymore. The opposite is true. I used to own an Audi A6 V8 with asuch a heater - great to have in winter time! No problems at all. Alos the referenced heaters work by warming air, no water included! Anyway.

I understand to install such a heater is a technical overkill as well - we're talking about light vintage sports cars...

For the defogging problem: Why won't you install a electrical heated windscreen?
https://www.heatedwindscreen.com/products/porsche-911-tinted-heated-windscreen

Thomas