Turn down the heat!

UTKarmann_Ghia · 05-23-2003, 05:36 PM

I was out driving today and the temp got to the top white line with normal traffic and about 82 degrees outside. I'm thinking there's no way I'm going to make it through the summer. I've read some previous posts on oil coolers, but I have a question about a specific cooler. I heard that some people like the Mocal oil cooler kits to replace the trombone-type cooling pipes. I dont have oodles of cash lying around to spend on a Cararra cooler, so I was thinking about buying the $280 replacement. Has anybody had any experience with these? Please give me some advice on this if you can, thanks.

UTKarmann_Ghia · 05-23-2003, 07:43 PM

Is anybody using one of these? I just need to know if these things will bring my temps down a bit. I know you can get bigger, better ones, but I'm on a budget and looking for a bit of extra cooling.

masraum · 05-23-2003, 08:04 PM

I know that being on a budget some people have used the coolers from an RX7.

Then there are other people who would not even consider using a used cooler.

Unfortunately I don't have any info for you concerning your primary question.

I believe that just about any radiator type cooler with large enough pipe/connections will be an improvement over the trombone.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Wayne's oil cooler kit is a good value at $651, and it mounts up like it belongs there (because it does). If you want to save a few bucks, you can get just the cooler and the lines for ~$425, and fab up a stone guard and mounting brackets.

You can add a fan later if you find you need it. You may not, especially if you don't drive in stop and go traffic much, and you make some changes for better airflow (like replacing the horns with puck-style or moving them to the other fender).

Tom

UTKarmann_Ghia · 05-24-2003, 02:06 PM

My horns are pretty weak anyways, so maybe I'll take a shot at changing those out.

Steve, this cooler has the 3/4" connections and is specially made to replace the trombone system in a 911. It's a 19 row, 11h" x6w" x 2d". I dont want to get one which does not provide much improvement over the trombone and just have to get another one later.

Anybody using the one I'm looking at?

North Coast Cab · North Coast Cab's Garage

Matt,
Since you've already got a trombone cooler check the t-stat for operation. Run the temp up above the first line and then feel the lines on the trombone cooler. If they're not hot the t-stat isn't opening. Also, if the trombone is hot check the passenger side hard lines to make sure they're not crushed.

JG

UTKarmann_Ghia · 05-24-2003, 03:49 PM

Good idea JG, I just assumed that the thermostat was working. I didnt think that my car should overheat on a 80degree day running through town. I'll check in a few, thanks.

UTKarmann_Ghia · 04:45 PM

Ok, just checked the lines and the trombone. The trombone gets hot when the temp is above the first white line and the tubes are perfectly intact. I cant imagine anyone driving this car in temps over 80 degrees as the temp hit the top white line pretty quickly in normal traffic driving. Is this normal!!??

Sorry for the questions, but since this is the first summer I've owned a p-car, I'm new to this overheating stuff.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Top of the last white line....?

120C=248F, hot but not enough to kill the motor.

"I" would check the oil temp with a pyrometer before investing in a cooler. Gauges/senders HAVE been known to fail.

pwd72s · 05-24-2003, 05:21 PM

Darned good idea to check with another temp measuring instrument, to see if the gauge matches. But 250 degrees f. oil temp? Too hot for me! I'd have pulled over, found a shady spot if possible, and raised the rear lid at 235 or so. I agree with the other posters, ANY radiator cooler would be a step up from the trombone. Would it be a big enough step? Dunno.

UTKarmann_Ghia · 10:03 PM

Mikez, I dont have another way to check the oil temp. Are these pyrometers easy to find? And where do I check the oil temp from? Any ideas?

Hey, here's a question. Do the oil pipes need to be cleaned/scrubbed on occasion to keep any buildup off of them so that they dissipate heat effectively?

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Most garages will have one, you can read the oil temp at the dipstick, outside of the tank and at the trombone.

UTKarmann_Ghia · 05-25-2003, 09:05 AM

MikeZ, it is possible that the thermostat is not opening all the way? I know the trombone is getting hot, but couldnt the thermostat be faltering and just not passing the oil as it should be?

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Yep....t-stats fail too. Take a read up stream and down stream....if there is a variance you could have an obstruction. Not real easy to tell.

If you go with a cooler, "I" would get a new T-stat as well. They tend to self destruct when you remove the 30 year old lines....

If you have the bucks, consider Chuck's Elephant lines for added cooling....it won't keep the car cooler, but will keep it as cool, longer under adverse conditions. The "normal" operating temp is a function of the t-stat.....the coolers disapate the heat as fast as the surface area allows.

Bumper to bumper traffic will also tend to raise temps unless you have a fan on the cooler...."I" don't, but living in SB rarely have the traffic like when I lived SmelLA.....

BUT.....the first issue....check to see if the gauge is accurate, one step at a time for diagnosis.....

Chuck Moreland · 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikez
consider Chuck's Elephant lines for added cooling....it won't keep the car cooler, but will keep it as cool, longer under adverse conditions.

I don't understand that point. Elephant Racing oil lines do keep your oil cooler. The lines are like an extra oil cooler all by themselves.

UT, your temps are way to high for and SC in street driving @80f. Something is not right.

Check to make sure your internal oil cooler is functioning properly. Internal thermostat could be bad, or your cooler fins may be blocked. Put your hand under the the cooler when hot, it should be very hot to the touch and you should feel air coming through the cooler.

My opinion on that mocal "loop replacement" - it works better than a loop, but not much. That cooler is tiny.

You have over $1200 in supporting kit in your car for oil cooling - thermostat, lines, fitting, brackets, etc. Putting a tiny $120 cooler at the business end of all that is kinda foolish (most of the cost in that $280 mocal "kit" is for lines, adapters and such). You now have a $1320+ dollar solution that is marginally effective.

Spend a couple hundred more, get a real cooler and you will have 2x to 3x the cooling that tiny cooler provides.

I understand not everyone is flush with cash, but you want a cooler to protect your big buck $X,000 engine from a temp problem. A marginally effective solution that saves a couple hundred dollars is false economy. Fix it once, fix it right and don't look back with regrets.

Schuey · 05-25-2003, 09:47 AM

Wayne also sells a COOL COLLAR for the filter and he swears it works well, from what I've read on it, I believe this would help you out as well...

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
I don't understand that point. Elephant Racing oil lines do keep your oil cooler. The lines are like an extra oil cooler all by themselves.

My point being that the car gets to an operating temp due to the t-stat. Any cooler, stock lines, YOUR lines, an extra cooler will keep it "cooler for longer" than just a trombone......there is a point when adding more cooling surfaces exceeds the need.

I have not had my car out on the track yet with the 3.6 with two coolers....if it does get warmer than I like it, I will probably add YOUR lines and maybe go with a larger cooler.

As of right now, I don't need it for canyon runs here on the coast. WSIR and the desert heat may change that.....

Chuck Moreland · 05-25-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikez
My point being that the car gets to an operating temp due to the t-stat. Any cooler, stock lines, YOUR lines, an extra cooler will keep it "cooler for longer" than just a trombone......there is a point when adding more cooling surfaces exceeds the need.

I see. Yes, as long as the tstat is not fully open more cooler will not reduce temperature, nor do you want to it reduced.

rfuerst911sc · 05-25-2003, 01:00 PM

I have a 1983-911SC that the previous owner had a Mocal cooler with fan installed,plus the temp gauge has been re-faced? to show actual temp readings instead of just white lines,so far in Orlando in 90 degree plus temps in stop and go with the AC on full I have not seen any temps above 225,and I still want to make some bumper cutouts and or side scoop to add more air flow.I am also going to install a cool collar and a CNC machined sump plate with fins,I am a firm believer that in the heat that I drive in that a degree here and a degree there make a difference.

k9handler · 05-25-2003, 01:19 PM

Mocal....it worked well with my 2.7 and is performing great with my 3.6 as it is the only cooler I have installed. I may end up adding another cooler if the cooler has a hard time in the summer months, but for now it's working great and I have yet to see temps above 220.