3.2 Driving Impressions (vs 2.7)

[IROC]

Well, I was finally able to test drive my newly installed 3.2 this weekend. The 3.2 replaced a venerable 2.7 that served me well for years.

First impression? The 3.2 (with ~245hp) doesn't feel that much quicker than the stock 2.7 it replaced. Heresy? It for sure feels "torquier" than the 2.7 in the middle rev range, but not awe-inspiring. Also the 3.2 doesn't have near the throttle response of the 2.7. Is that just me or is that a characteristic of the larger displacement engines? Maybe there's something I need to adjust?

Admittedly, I have been somewhat gentle on it since the clutch is brand new, etc. and I'm still on the lookout for anything amiss in a fit of freakish paranoia, but my initial impression is not overwhelming.

Mike
'76 Euro 911 w/3.2

[jmz]

was your 2.7 of the RS spec variety?

I had a 2.7 w/ carbs and solex cams and found it to be about as quick as a 3.2 /early car and that it spooled up quicker than a 3.2 motronic in an early car. This particular car still had the cats and stock 3.2 exhaust on it though.

I had the chance to drive an early car w/ a 3.2 (euro) with carbs and tuned exhaust and thought you could really feel the difference between it and the 2.7 in the seat of your pants.

If your 2.7 was the garden variety CIS motor than I think you've got something wrong w/ the 3.2.

[IROC]

Naw, the 2.7 was CIS, but a strong motor with headers and Supertrapps.

I think I am just being too critical of the 3.2 at this point. I need to put a few more miles on it and then thrash it within an inch of its life. My son's "seat of the pants" opinion was that the 3.2 was alot quicker than the 2.7, so maybe I'm just overly paranoid.

Thanks,

Mike

[TerryBPP]

I have a 76 2.7 and I have raced my buddies 3.2 cab a bunch of times. I get him by about 5 cars until we hit 100 mph. Then he starts to creep up on me. My car has CIS wo/exchangers. His has exchangers with a Dansk muffler. I believe the 3.2 in more of a highway, topspeed motor without any mods. I say change the 3.2 to carbs, mess with cam setup, do some porting. Good luck.

[jmz]

3.2 heads flow very well, you don't need to port them.

[Dan Owens]

Have you checked your linkage to make sure you're getting Wide Open Throttle. That's a common situation on 3.2's for some reason that the linkage get's out of adjustment and you don't realize it. Also make sure that the AFM is adjusted correctly for O2 mixture if you haven't already done that.

[IROC]

Originally posted by Dan Owens
Have you checked your linkage to make sure you're getting Wide Open Throttle. That's a common situation on 3.2's for some reason that the linkage get's out of adjustment and you don't realize it. Also make sure that the AFM is adjusted correctly for O2 mixture if you haven't already done that.

These are on my list of things to do, but right now I am just happy that the thing runs and drives (just got the engine in).

I really don't suspect anything is wrong, but I plan on checking all of these just to make sure.

BTW, is there an easy way to reach the throttle linkage under the manifold? It was all I could do to attach the linkage from the gearbox after the engine was in the car. Yikes.

Thanks,

Mike

[Superman]

It sounds like you still need to sort out this engine/installation. 2.7 engines are terrific, but your 3.2 should be considerably stronger and more responsive than a CIS 2.7.

[TerryBPP]

Not needed, but can't hurt.

[jmz]

you can hurt your heads by doing port work. A race motor w/ big cams and gobs of compression could benefit from an expert massaging the 3.2 heads. Stock 3.2 heads have really good flow numbers though.

I had a friend who built a 2.7 mech. injected motor and he really opened up the ports in the heads and matched the injection stacks. This car really suffered from a lack of low end torque.

[Stuttgart951]

I had the same impression, albeit in different cars. A buddy of mine has (had) a 77 Euro Carrera 3.0 with a 2.7L in it. I felt that compared to my 3.2L, his engine was more responsive, and gave a greater "seat of the pants" speed acceleration. It just "felt" faster.

My 88 is faster in reality, however. The 3.2L engine seems to be deceptively fast. Ive only had mine for about 6 months now, and when I put the fun pedal down, just as Im wishing I was pushed back in the seat, thinking "I need a 930," I look down and Im going 90 MPH on public roads after a few seconds. The 3.2L's seem to be odd in that they get up to speed fairly quickly without you realizing it.

[jmz]

I think there is a big differnece in comparing a 2.7 lightweight car to a 3.2 heavy car. vs. lightweight to lightweight like IROC is talking about. Furthermore, the 7:31 ring and pinion in the early car transaxle helps the 3.2 come out of the hole better than the 8:31 the carrera had on them.

[IROC]

Originally posted by jmz
I think there is a big differnece in comparing a 2.7 lightweight car to a 3.2 heavy car. vs. lightweight to lightweight like IROC is talking about. Furthermore, the 7:31 ring and pinion in the early car transaxle helps the 3.2 come out of the hole better than the 8:31 the carrera had on them.

Well, for sure, I'm expecting big things out of this 3.2 as it is supposed to be producing 240-250 hp. My car (with the 2.7) only weighed about 2350lbs, so even with the heavier 3.2, it should still scoot.

I'm going to play with it (drive it, mostly) some more and see what happens.

Thanks,

Mike

[catuck]

I just did the exact same swap in my car. I have had some trouble getting everything sorted out, but I finally had it running this weekend and really noticed the power difference.
I think at low RPM's it's not terribly more powerful than my old 2.7, but up in the mid RPM range, it felt almost like a turbo.

I have SSI's and bursch muffler from my old engine, and one of Steve W.'s chips. Also a fresh clutch and tranny rebuild.

BTW, how have you arrived at your 245-250 hp estimate? I figured I have maybe 230 or so.

[speeder]

I am curious as well about the 240-250hp 3.2, how did someone get that much power out of it? That is not easy, (or inexpensive), to do on that motor. Porsche did not leave many easy ponies on the table w/ that one. And BTW, jmz is right. Porting a stock 3.2 is a good way to lose a few of those horses.

Anyways......., stock 3.2=200hp, (U.S.), 6.0 sec. 0-60 ~2900lb. car. Stock 2.7 CIS=150/170hp,(depending on version), 7.5 sec. 0-60, ~2500lb. car. A stock 3.2 Carrera, 400lbs. heavier, was 1.5seconds quicker 0-60. (Factory #s). Even if your new 3.2 is closer to 200hp., it should be a LOT quicker on the stopwatch, and also the ass-dyno. The 2.7 does have a "peppier" characteristic, (easier reving), I know what you mean because I have owned one, but the 3.2 has a huge torque advantage. Get that motor sorted out.

[JeremyD]

And to just to add - you HAVE to get the 3.2 up in revs to get any kick out of it - once past 4500 rpm's it really comes alive. Past 5,000 and it comes on like a turbo!

[IROC]

Originally posted by Jeremy964
And to just to add - you HAVE to get the 3.2 up in revs to get any kick out of it - once past 4500 rpm's it really comes alive. Past 5,000 and it comes on like a turbo!

This is probably part of the problem....I've been babying it somewhat since I just got it running. It will be properly thrashed real quickly.

As for the power, the PO estimated it based on basically starting off with a Euro 3.2 config (231hp) and then adding SSIs/Dansk and a custom chip. Does this make sense?

Mike

[masraum]

240 with the pipes and chip, 250 maybe, but that's probably stretchin it. The 3.2 definitely needs to be redlined to feel the power. The others are right the kick comes in between 4000 and the rev limiter.

[JeremyD]

Yes, makes sense - If I remember the torque and HP maps - I think you are making like half the hp at the lower RPM's. On a 2300 lb car at those revs you are getting a hp to weight ratio similiar to a Honda Acord.

[k9handler]

last year at an autox I went a few laps with an instructor in his car with the 3.2...man that car was quick! Then when he went with me in my 2.7, he said "Man this thing is quick". So I think it's all in your mind and once you open that baby up and get in the powerband you will sing a different tune! Enjoy