Taking out ignition switch - question(s)?

[fallingat120mph]

Have started to take out the ignition switch (1986 Coupe) and had a question for everyone - am taking the whole part out (replacing the electrical part with new) and while I have the whole thing out my question is:


My electrical portion will be new but what exactly am I looking for while inspecting the "mechanical" part of the switch???


Very good threads here for various switch problems but not seeing the answer I am looking for.




Thanks everyone -

Erik

[Alan L]

What is the problem with the switch. They are a bit tricky to pull apart. Well not so much pulling apart, but putting back together. BTDT.
Alan

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by Alan L

What is the problem with the switch. They are a bit tricky to pull apart. Well not so much pulling apart, but putting back together. BTDT.
Alan

Switch is out - yikes...one bolt came out easy-ish with the filed chisel method and the other had to be drilled out, but all is well.


I was having electrical gremlins with startup (or lack of start up), etc...key felt a bit loose in the switch also. Going through wiring, relays, grounding, and cleaning contacts...

I plan on doing a dash refurbish and feel like I need to know about this anyway - I will own the car until I can't drive anymore and with the electrical gremlins trying to tackle/learn head on.

Erik

[fallingat120mph]

I might add this driver has 220,000 miles on it so...ignition system is getting an overhaul.

[Alan L]

I think I would have tried checking I had 12V at the start solenoid with switch in Start position.
But you could still basically bench test it that way.
Alan

[fallingat120mph]

Solenoid was checked and all was well...in car and out of car.

***At one point the car turned over with the key "OUT" of the ignition. Which has lead me to this point of removing the ignition and refurbishing.

Without going too far down the rabbit hole, at first I thought it was the starter/solenoid but (for me) everything is leading to the ignition switch.

I have received some great schematics and advice just wondering about the mechanical portion of the ignition switch.

Thanks for the input!

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

My electrical portion will be new but what exactly am I looking for while inspecting the "mechanical" part of the switch???

Make sure the spade part of the back of the lock isn't cracked or damaged, because it can break off - removing the mechanical connection to the electrical switch itself.

If you relieve pressure on the steering lock pin (eg turn the wheel a touch) before turning the key, it may not happen at all (mine has 260,000 on it and is fine). However, not everyone does this. This also helps prevent the key bending, too...

That spade seems to be made of some kind of fairly low-grade metal - not 1970's Japanese carburetor body (recycled toothpaste tubes) bad and not quite pot metal, but certainly not the most robust part of the car...

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

having electrical gremlins with startup (or lack of start up), etc..
...
Going through wiring, relays, grounding, and cleaning contacts...

Good plan, never hurts. When you say "lack of startup", there are very different things to check for "doesn't turn over" as opposed to "turns over but doesn't start". But going over grounds/connections gives you a good baseline for whatever.

If it was a solid problem, you are indeed fortunate. Unfortunately, this can be an intermittent issue - and then the best you can say is "it hasn't reoccurred - yet"...

The "click, doesn't turn over" problem I chased for ages ended up being the solenoid pin/socket on the engine bay 14 pin connector - the infamous "yellow wire" that goes to the solenoid. Any voltage drop on that can cause a "click" when the key is turned to Start - but doesn't turn the motor over.

If this is your problem, once you've got good grounds, check this path all the way to the solenoid - and don't be fooled by merely getting voltage there, as the connection needs to deliver a good amount of current - eg amps - in order to throw the solenoid out. Bad ground on the transmission ground strap is a common problem too - harsh environment and they have a hard life.

My intermittent starting problem hasn't reoccurred in 15 years, I'm starting to believe I've got it sorted now

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

key felt a bit loose in the switch also.

Probably either the key or the lock is worn. This isn't, in itself, necessarily a problem. Most issues with locks are them either being damaged inside (not the same as worn) - or, most often, gummed up inside from either age - or from the junk people put in them trying to fix them.

This causes the pins to stick, and then they might not be free to get out of the way when you try to turn the lock, which can increase the pressure on the key to turn it, if its borderline.

Graphite is the worst, even though FLAPS sell it specifically to put in locks - almost rendered my locks completely immovable after a few weeks. Some swear by WD40 - but I've had two locksmiths independently tell me that the very best thing to use is silicon spray, like Tri-Flo or similar. It has a solvent to wash out gummed up oil/grease etc - and the silicon itself doesn't ever get gummy, so the pins don't stick.

Shake the can, fit the little pipe to the nozzle, insert into lock, hold a rag under the lock to catch whatever comes out, and blast it for a good 15-20 second spray, moving the pipe up and down over the pins. Work the key in the lock, waggiling it from side-to-side and pushing it in and out to exercise the pins. Blast it again, repeat the bit with the key. And then do it again.

After a good clean, shouldn't need a repeat more often then a light application every 5-6 years or so. If I feel increased resistance on the key, I'll just redo it. Seems to stop them icing up, too.

Good luck!

[Alan L]

Agree with silicon spray for locks - you can get an electrical grade. WD 40 leaves a sticky residue - fatal for lock pins eventually.

"At one point the car turned over with the key "OUT" of the ignition."
Are you saying the car tried to start all by itself with no input from you?
There are from memory a bunch of fiddly springs inside that ignition switch. If you do pull it apart, pay good attention to how it is assembled. You can easily have a pile of small bits on the bench and floor in no time.
Alan

[fallingat120mph]

Well, took the time to take apart. Have some photos...keep in mind I have new coming and a spare from a 911 with only 65,000 miles on it - just wanted to see what was inside.


Should there be that much "gunk"/"residue" in the internals?







A question would be how do I clean the lock/key cylinder without taking that out. I've re-keyed my motorcycle luggage so not afraid of that, but everything seems in order and have to assume someone in previous ownership someone sprayed a lubrication in there. Is light compressed air going to hurt anything and thenhit it with Tri-Flo???


The "spade" part seems very solid but grimy so got a break there. Just waiting on the electrical to come in the mail.

Erik

[Alan L]

All that gunk in there is probably the original lube. You could clean the whole thing out and regrease with dielectric grease.
As for the key barrel - I am making a guess - but I would tend to wash it out with something like brakekleen - a good solvent. Then re lube with silicon spray.
Alan

[fallingat120mph]

An update:

Since I have a complete spare (backup) took some electronic cleaner to the key barrel/lock as I wanted to see how bad it was...

Used light blasts of air from my compressor and then held upside down and sprayed cleaner into -

REALLY wish I would have video taped (or photo'd) as I couldn't believe just how long it took to get somewhat visually clean solvent. Did this 4-5 times and blew out to dry.


Couldn't believe how nice the key turned and came out...probably not like new but pretty damn close. The car came from a good home, stored inside and I guess 3 plus decades and 200,000 miles later the dirt just adds up...lesson learned.


I'll be ordering a new key as mine is showing "brassing(?) and the edges are very worn.

Will hit everything with Tri-Flo and assemble when all the parts get it...




Thanks everyone for the input...



Erik

[fallingat120mph]

Getting parts in and doing a dry run - -

Question:

1. What plug this is on the back of the mechanical part of the ignition switch -

2. ...AND does it matter which way it plugs back in???




Purple and black are the wires, per photo:








The photos I took during disassembly the two separate wires both look black.





Thanks for help, knee deep in new starter install, new voltage regulator install so again thanks for any insight.


Erik