Anyone has their targa bar cover off?

[Winter911]

Hello. I’m in the process of converting my cabriolet 911 back to a targa.
I have most of the measurements I need to weld the bar back in but I’m missing one which is noted below (picture credit to Dpmulvan). Could anyone give me the measurement in mm? Inches will work as well but prefer mm for accuracy.


Thanks again.

[Dpmulvan]

Don’t have the measurement because my Targa is now a coupe, however a couple things that might help if you hadn’t thought of them already. Mount the stainless bar cover to check fitment also placing the back window might help as well. Good luck, I know it can be a pain and the thoughts of not getting it right will make you lose sleep, but in the end it will come out better than expected.

[kwyjibo]

I'm restoring a '71 targa that has the cover off. I went out to measure for you and found inconsistent distances.
It looks like you are using the edge of the bend on the plate with the louvered vent as a reference point - correct me if thats not correct. The first problem is that both the plates on my car are angled, so depending where you take the measurement, it can be several mm off. Second, the location isn't consistent between the two. My bar was carefully measured for the targa top restoration and it was nearly perfectly square (relative to the windshield frame). The top and rear window fit very well. So I think that the bar is located correctly. iI'm wondering, if like many things on the assembly line, the exact location of this plate wasn't critical and it was just placed by eye and welded. If that's the case, then I can take different measurements for you.

Here are a couple photos showing the two sides. The first one is the driver's side.

[Winter911]

Originally Posted by kwyjibo

I'm restoring a '71 targa that has the cover off. I went out to measure for you and found inconsistent distances.
It looks like you are using the edge of the bend on the plate with the louvered vent as a reference point - correct me if thats not correct. The first problem is that both the plates on my car are angled, so depending where you take the measurement, it can be several mm off. Second, the location isn't consistent between the two. My bar was carefully measured for the targa top restoration and it was nearly perfectly square (relative to the windshield frame). The top and rear window fit very well. So I think that the bar is located correctly. iI'm wondering, if like many things on the assembly line, the exact location of this plate wasn't critical and it was just placed by eye and welded. If that's the case, then I can take different measurements for you.

Here are a couple photos showing the two sides. The first one is the driver's side.

Thank you for those pictures. I find the inconsistencies very interesting. Like you said, the assembly line probably did not care to make both sides symmetrical.
My donor bar seems to be cut too far up so material will need to be added. With those measurements it should give me an idea on how much needs to be welded back on.

If you have an angle/degree finder, could you give me the degrees of how far the bar leans back on the car? Something like this:


I appreciate all your help

[theiceman]

wow get that angle even a fraction of a degree off and you are not getting that back window it, this is a very brave endeavor. i wouldn't even dare trying it unless i had an identical year car sitting there i could compare with.

[kwyjibo]

I can get you those measurements, but I'm with Iceman on this. It won't take much for the rear window to not fit right.

I think that the rear glass would be a better template to fit the bar. I can get some photos later, but I remember that the glass was spaced evenly to the lip/ridge on the tops of the fenders and back of the targa bar (ie: the metal lip had a consistent gap to the glass for the entire circumference). My guess is that it you first position the glass relative to the fenders, then the height and angle of the targa bar can be laid out. My car has been waiting in line for space in the paint shop - with the glass still waiting to be lifted out because I don't have a safe space to store it - so I can take a few photos later.

[Winter911]

Originally Posted by kwyjibo

I can get you those measurements, but I'm with Iceman on this. It won't take much for the rear window to not fit right.

I think that the rear glass would be a better template to fit the bar. I can get some photos later, but I remember that the glass was spaced evenly to the lip/ridge on the tops of the fenders and back of the targa bar (ie: the metal lip had a consistent gap to the glass for the entire circumference). My guess is that it you first position the glass relative to the fenders, then the height and angle of the targa bar can be laid out. My car has been waiting in line for space in the paint shop - with the glass still waiting to be lifted out because I don't have a safe space to store it - so I can take a few photos later.

Yes the plan is to use the window and the targa top to line it up correctly. I was able to source both from a fellow pelican.
I appreciate it either way. The process has been done before as well as documented.

The biggest challenge will probably be carefully maneuvering the window with the seal in place and not getting the metal too hot by welding to prevent paint bubbling.

I’ll create a separate thread to document the process as I’m sure it’ll be useful for someone else. I’ve heard these targa to cab conversions were popular in the 80s smh

Here’s mocking things up.

[Dpmulvan]

Attach outer garnish rails that sit under glass, put a fresh seal on the rear window and go from there. It’s not that difficult just take your time, tack everything up.

[RDM]

Originally Posted by theiceman

wow get that angle even a fraction of a degree off and you are not getting that back window it,

Disagree. The window has a very substantial seal all the way around, which makes room for some inaccuracy. That said, you really do want to be as close as you can be.

[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by RDM

Disagree. The window has a very substantial seal all the way around, which makes room for some inaccuracy. That said, you really do want to be as close as you can be.

Do you have the targa top? I’d fit the bar with the back window and the top on.

[kwyjibo]

Sorry about the delay - here are a couple photos. The gap between the glass and metal is pretty consistently 5mm. The first one is looking across the top. The outer faces of the glass and metal are very level. The cut window rubber is still cushioning the two, so it's probably easiest to orient yourself by looking at the bottom of the photo where its labeled.

Here's the "worst" gap at the passenger side (sorry the photo is rotated). You can see that the gap is pinching as it goes down. The drivers side stayed consistent. I can't say for certain that the window didn't leak because the car was off the road for a couple decades when I found it. But this goes to RDM's point about the thick rubber.

[RDM]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

Do you have the targa top? I’d fit the bar with the back window and the top on.

Maybe use the top as a jig, tack it in place and then test fit the window. Adjust and repeat as necessary.

[Winter911]

Originally Posted by kwyjibo

Sorry about the delay - here are a couple photos. The gap between the glass and metal is pretty consistently 5mm. The first one is looking across the top. The outer faces of the glass and metal are very level. The cut window rubber is still cushioning the two, so it's probably easiest to orient yourself by looking at the bottom of the photo where its labeled.

Here's the "worst" gap at the passenger side (sorry the photo is rotated). You can see that the gap is pinching as it goes down. The drivers side stayed consistent. I can't say for certain that the window didn't leak because the car was off the road for a couple decades when I found it. But this goes to RDM's point about the thick rubber.

Sorry I must’ve not been clear. The bar sits at a certain angle and not at a straight 90 degrees. Here’s a picture showing better of what I was looking for.

And yes I do have a top so that is going to be a life saver.

Thanks again

[Winter911]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

Do you have the targa top? I’d fit the bar with the back window and the top on.

The problem is that I don’t want to attach the seal completely to the bar because I don’t want to ruin the seal when I take the window back off.
It will also make it very very difficult to maneuver the bar and the window together.

I think a better approach would be to test fit the bar with the top and test fit the window right before I fully weld the bar back in.
I’m sure I’ll be tacking and test fitting a lot.

I need to be careful to not bubble the paint when tacking/welding, so I’ll have to go very slow.

[Dpmulvan]

Do you have the targa bar cover? I would throw that on and bolt it down should give you the perfect alignment.

[kwyjibo]

My car is sitting on a dolly so I measured the angle relative to the door sill, not from vertical as you drew: 111 degrees
good luck

[Winter911]

Got most of what I needed. I have it lined up but it’s still about 10mm too far back. Need to move it forward.

Does anyone have a picture of the very bottom screw of the targa bar cover? My bar doesn’t have since it was cut too far up.
Also, I’m afraid if I move the targa bar more forward it’s going to push the cover too far.. so I’m trying to figure out how the cover wraps around the body.

This is what I’m talking about:
Does it look right?

I appreciate all your help.

[Speed metal]

Originally Posted by theiceman

wow get that angle even a fraction of a degree off and you are not getting that back window it, this is a very brave endeavor. i wouldn't even dare trying it unless i had an identical year car sitting there i could compare with.

Ha! Not as daunting as one might think... OP, lots of dimensions on my thread.
Cab back to Targa! Project "BugBug" goes back to where he once belonged

[grb008]

Im going to throw out there that be carefule fitting with your top. You might want to have your top sent out and have someone like targa dan put it in the jig and make sure its correctly in alignment. Then use it as a template. Your top could be off. Then if you get the top repaired properly it wont fit.

[Winter911]

It’s been a while since I finished the conversion.
Speed metal’s thread was a life saver. Not as bad as people make it out to be.