Time to Rebuild My Suspension

JTO · 06-04-2003, 11:14 AM

Hi Folks,

I need help with a parts list to rebuild my 1975 911S suspension.

The Konis are original to the car and shot. They are hydraulic not gas, I believe. The bushings front and rear are original, as are most of the sway bar bushings except for the drop link bushing in the rear.

I would like to use Chuck's bronze bushings because of their durability and precision. Is this a good choice? The car is a street car 90%.

What bushings do I need to replace both front and rear?

I think I want to upgrade the torsion bars to something like 22 front and 26 rear. What do you think?

Lastly, I have non-adjustable spring plates and am considering the Sway-away plates. Any good? Worth the money? The car is at the USA ride height and I want it lower.

Thanks for any feedback.

Troy

1fastredsc · 06-04-2003, 11:27 AM

A good rule of thumb for suspension maintenence is to replace anything that is subjected to friction, like bushings. If i were you, i'd replace the shock/strut tower bushings with solid mono ball type. Everything else that you mention is out of my knowledge spectrum.

IROC · IROC's Garage

I would shy away from anything harder than polyurethane bushings (especially for a street car). I'm not familiar with the bronze bushings you mentioned.

I would start off by putting anything on your list to replace that is obviously worn out and then add optional stuff. On my car, I replaced the front a-arm and rear spring plate bushings with polyurethane and I used factory rubber bushings for the sway bars.

The Sway-a-Way adjustable spring plates are wonderful. I would go maybe something like 21/26 or 27 or maybe 22/28 on the torsion bars unless you're going to see alot more track duty than what you stated.

Mike

JTO · 06-04-2003, 11:56 AM

Thanks you two,

I was referring to Elephant Racing's suspension bushings (Chuck's). They look great and I have read a few good words about them on this site. Anyone care to comment about them? Are they worth the extra dollars?

Thanks,

Troy

IROC · IROC's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by JTO
Thanks you two,

I was referring to Elephant Racing's suspension bushings (Chuck's). They look great and I have read a few good words about them on this site. Anyone care to comment about them? Are they worth the extra dollars?

OK, I think I know the bushings... One thing that is paramount when installing poly bushings is to fit them to *your* car. They show up nice and round, but your car isn't. I spent alot of time with a wood file carefully shaping and fitting the bushings so that they would install in the car and not cause any binding of the suspension piece. That and some good lubricant and they will not squeak. I did mine about 8 years ago and they still don't squeak.

So, I'm sure the Elephant Racing bushings are good, but careful installation of the more inexpensive ones can also yield good results.

Mike

1fastredsc · 06-04-2003, 12:04 PM

I haven't tried them yet, but if your car's 90% street, then why spend the extra money. On the other hand my car's the same but i still want them cause i'm anal retentive on getting the best handling possible without purchasing coil overs. But that's just me.

JTO · 06-04-2003, 12:08 PM

1fastredsc,

That's me too. I just want the best, if I can afford it.

IROC, supposedly Chuck's bushings are a snap to install with no fitting.

Any comments on the Konis? The orignal ones on my car are hydraulic, not gas. Make any difference?

Thanks guys,
Troy

mannrak · mannrak's Garage

I'm in the middle of rebuilding the suspension on my `75 911S. My Koni inserts were shot also. Oil poured out of the strut housing after I opened the top. One thing I discovered was that every thing I took apart was very worn and needed to be replaced. I popped the caliper pistons out on my 'S' brakes and there was a pile of sludge sitting in the bottom of each piston. Here's a good list of things to replace 'while you're in there:
1. SS brake lines
2. Rotors
2. Caliper rebuild kits
3. Suspension Bushings (Chuck's Gen II look really nice)
4. Ball Joints & retaining nuts
5. Turbo -tie rods
6. Strut inserts
7. Strut Pins
8. Upper Steering rack bearing
9. Wheel Bearings & Seals

This is just what I could remember for the front end. You also may need some new tools, I did. The worst part of the rebuild for me is not being able to drive it.

Superman · 06-04-2003, 01:11 PM

If your car still has original shocks, then whatever you bolt on will seem like the most awesome shock on the planet. Hard bushings can be very offensive in a daily driver, though I suspect that the control arm bushings are less likely to result in this. In other words, if there is a good place for brass instead of rubber, it might be those control arm bushings. I would say that if there is a bad place (in terms of ride comfort and noise) for metal bushings, it would be at the tops of the shick towers.

JTO · 06-04-2003, 01:30 PM

Thanks guys. We will see how much I can get away with in tems of expense. Shocks and bushings for sure.

Troy

1fastredsc · 06-04-2003, 01:36 PM

Well if your anal retentive then go for it man. And as far as the koni's, i don't know anything about the original oil koni's. But the adjustable ones are pretty cool, my dad has them on his 951 and can go from stiff, to holy ***** that last bump almost threw my out the car.

mannrak · mannrak's Garage

The part $$ adds up fast...

One free thing you can do.... remove the 10mm washer that sits in-between the camber plate and the top of the strut.

Randy Webb · 06-04-2003, 01:57 PM

The real question here is how hard it will ride on the street. Chuck hasn't spoken on this yet, but brass is a LOT harder than rubber. I wouldn't do it, but you have to satisfy yourself.

On an old car, replace every piece of rubber there is -- incl. the bump stops and the rubber triangular mounts for the top of the struts.

JTO · 06-04-2003, 02:06 PM

One problem with asking the question I did is that the parts list grows and therefore the dollar amount grows. I was already at about $1500 before you guys contributed your $0.02! Oh well, I just neglect something else for a while.
Troy

Randy Webb · 06-04-2003, 02:18 PM

Neglect the paint & interior. Such Q ships are less likely to get stolen and more likely to catch "racing" opponents off guard.

eurocarrera · 06-04-2003, 03:15 PM

Troy, I wouldn't spend the money on the adjustable spring plates since you are probably going to "set it up once and then forget it". I think the adjustable plates are more geared towards the folks who track their cars. In regards to the Elephant bushings, see my comments in this thread:

WOW - Bronze Elephant Suspension Bearings!

In regards to a shopping list for parts, here is what I did to mine:
1985 Carrera
* 22 MM front and 28 MM Rear torsion bars
* Bilstein Sports on all 4 corners
* Turbo Tie rod kit
* Bump steer kit
* New ball joints
* New brake pads
*Wheel bearings (front)
* Lowered to 25 3/4" front, and 25 1/2" in the back
* 4 wheel alignment - Custom Alignment in Mountain View (they are the bomb)

JonT · 06-04-2003, 04:53 PM

Bill--could you describe how this setup changed your handling and what if anything would you do differently? Also, how much $$? Thanks

JTO · 06-06-2003, 08:21 PM

Thanks for the reply guys!

I've got a good list now and its pretty clear what I will do. I may go for a used set of late spring plates so there will be at least some easy adjustment in the rear.

Thanks,
Troy

JTO · 06-06-2003, 08:31 PM

Oh, I pulled the spaceer from the front suspension last summer. Dropped the front about an inche. The rear is still at US stock height. It looks kinda funny still but better than it used to.

Thanks,
Troy

Chuck Moreland · 09:53 PM

Hopefully I can clear up any confusion, Gen 2 Elephant Racing suspension bearings are now shipping for both control arms and spring plates. They are available through Pelican. They are a hybrid of bronze and polyurethane, delivering the best of both.

The friction surface is bronze and rides on a provided steel race and grease. The result is very low friction and absolutely zero squeaking. The bronze is rigid and doesn't conform to the out-of-round shape of the mounts like oldfashioned poly bushings, hence no binding.

The bronze has a jacket of polyurethane which performs a variety of functions. One of which is vibration absorption comparable to oldfashioned poly bushings.

So you get the performance and ease-of-installation benefits of a bronze bearing and the ride quality of the oldfashioned poly bushings.

Many buyers of the gen 2 bearings intend to use them for the street. Bill Atkins above is one such example.

I personally recommend the factory adjustable spring plates over sway-a-way. The factory plates provide adequate adjustment range. They are cheaper and lighter than sway-a-way. And the the sway-a-way look just plain clunky.

My bronze spring plate bearings don't fit sway-a-way. My opinion of sway-a-way hasn't changed since the bearings were released and I've posted my preference for factory plates on this board long ago.