Motor Back In -- Motor Not Starting

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

I have an '83 SC with the original 3.0 and 915 transmission. The car is relatively stock. The head studs have been replaced, pop-off, new oil lines, new timing chains, ramps, timing upgrade, etc. The car was running very well and started nicely, but I had many small oil leaks.

I took the motor back out in order to correct several small, pesky oil leaks. I adjusted the valves, checked several items, and replaced some gaskets and such. I did not touch the timing, did not remove the distributor, and did not change the CSI.

After hooking things back up I disconnected the fuel pump relay. Turned the motor over to ensure the oil pressure came up, which it did rather quickly. I put the relay back and let the pump pump fuel for about 15 seconds. I then turned over the motor and got nothing but the sounds of a car trying to start. I stopped, let the pump go for a short time, and then tried to start. The car backfired. I then got out the re-build book.

Starter spins and I have oil pressure. Ground strap is on. Motor turns by hand. I did not touch the timing and have not tried a timing light. I double checked the plug wires but have not triple checked. I believe there is fuel as I can smell a faint odor. The wiring harness is plugged in. The spark plug wires are connected (I do not know their age but it is more than four years).

Should I try disconnecting the fuel lines to ensure fuel delivery? Other ideas please! Thank you,

[slakjaw]

sounds to me,

maybe you have some plug wires in the wrong order??


that or the valves are too tight,

whats your compression?

Kyle
71` 911

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

I have not taken the compression. I will verify the plug wires order and whether or not they are contacting the plugs and the distributor cap. I did the valves the same way as in the past, but maybe I did get them wrong. I'm willing to look! Thank you!

Any other ideas?

[bell]

usually it's something simple when you don't mess with the mechanicals.......
check that you're getting spark first, that'll tell you which dirrection you need to go.
were any of the wire connectors corroded at all?

[marcesq]

Seems to me that you need to varify that fuel is getting to the cylinders. Pull the fuel feed lines one at a time and put in a jar. Turn on pump and see if she flows. If not turn starter over and see if she flows.

Valves would really have to be out of wack to cause non starting

[Elombard]

When I did my drop and reseal it took a really loooong time for it to fire the first time. I dont know why. I would suggest putting a charger on it and crank it for a while. Dont melt your starter but I suspect you are close. Seems like mine back fired right before it started.


Also did you bleed the injectors? reach in and lift the plate for a few seconds to prime the injectors. I think they get air locked other wise.

[MotoSook]

Did you bleed your fuel line before trying to start it? Ignition on, push up on air plate (1-2 seconds..don't have to lift much..may have to repeat to get all the air out), you'll hear the injectors scream.

That is assuming everything is connected correctly. There is a chance the plugs may have fouled in you attempt to start the car too, but if on or twi is fouled, you may still get it started..run hot and the plugs my unfoul...happens on my bike everytime it sits too long...usually clears out.

[jk911]

Can you hear the CDI box whine ?

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Kyle,

Bingo! 2 and 3 were swapped. I missed the first two times through.

Bell,

No corrosion on the connections. I think I am getting spark, but do you have a nice, safe test a person could try who is doing this alone?

Marc, EW, Souk,

I bled the lines this time. Pushed "up" from inside the air box, 2 seconds on the first time, a slight sucking sound. I tried to start the car and was rewarded with two very LOUD backfires. Reminded me of 38s. Decided to go for number two and received a very nice meow! But, I did flood the car... Damn, one more night, well, three actually as I won't be back for a couple of days. Hope I did not foul the plugs.

JK,

I can hear the CDI (Perma-Tune) and the fuel pump humming oh so wonderfully away!

Thanks to all!

[82SC]

I don't know how much work you've done on your car...but since I am a green thumb novice, I've made every mistake under the sun...

but for me I mucked up my valve adj and cam timing...and wasn't getting compression

I know you didn't mess with the timing, but did you turn the engine couter clock wise??? that made my timing skip while I was doing the valve adj...

all you need to do is check for spark...fuel...air...and compression

spark is easy...get a spare, plug it into a wire, ground the threads and turn over the engine (take the fuel pump relay while doing this; since you are solo, put the plug with wire on the rear drivers fender, use a pair of jumper cables to ground the threads...and you can look over your shoulder while turning the key...turn off the lights in the garage to help you)

(spark at the right time...since you didn't move your dizzy, doubtful)

fuel (all I did was sniff my muffler....easy to tell if you got fuel)

compression, you just have to check your valve adjustment

after all my tries i flooded the engine, so I took out the fuel pump relay and turned the engine over 3-4 times to clear out the cylinders

I tested for fouled plugs (I just took the plugs far away from the car, gas fumes, and used a propane torch on the end to "dry" them off)

good luck, keep us posted

MJ

[Elombard]

You might want to change your oil again after you get it running if alot of gas got in there. I think it really thins it out. At least that was advice given to me by a good mechanic.

[Wayne 962]

95% of the time, problems like these are caused by ignition problems. If you changed the cam lines, then you must have had to remove the distributor?

Remember! 911SC distributors run backwards. Refer to the diagram on page 190 in the engine book, except swap plugs 6 and 5 and 2 and 3. This is a *very* common mistake. The backfiring shows that you are getting spark and fuel - it seems to be a timing issue...

-Wayne

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

MJ,

I very well could have accidentally moved the engine counter clock-wise. I was, I thought, fairly careful, but you never know. I'll get a timing light and try to get another set of hands. And I am much greener than you, so the possibilities are endless... And I probably did foul the plugs.

EW,

Yep, changing the oil is a good idea once I get the car going. Your friend was dead on.

Wayne,

The cam lines were changed last year so I had no reason to do anything but take off the plug wires/distributor cap combo. I tend to think that you are right. I'm getting fuel and spark, but might have a timing issue. The scenario presented by MJ would be the most likely. Now to test timing.

[kpfoten]

My no-start problem was as simple as the rotor not completely seated. I don't know how I missed that one the first time...

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

OK, it was the timing. I do not know how but the rotor had been turned clockwise and was loose. Has anyone heard of this? The car started right up and jumped to 1000 RPM. Stayed there for a minute and then started dropping. She backfired and died. Started right on up and did the same thing. I can manually hold the idle to 2000 RPM and everything seems nice, but when I let off she dies.

I did find one thing out of whack. There is one vacuum hose that appears to be unattached. I put it in a loop, but the car did the same thing. The hose is attached to the Deceleration Vavlve on one end, goes to a T-Connection, and travels to the Throttle Housing on one hose. The other hose end is long (2 feet?) and not connected. The factory manuals show this hose as going to some connection on the motor, but the book does not identify what this connection is. It would also appear that there were two configuations for this connection on '80 to '83 cars with the other connection not having this hose.

Any other ideas are greatly appreciated! Thanks to you all,