'87 Carrera Heavy Steering

[mziggy16]

Last week I drove my '87 Coupe back-to-back with a friends '78 SC Coupe (same wheel/tire size) and observed that my steering is noticeably heavier than the SC. My steering wheel takes two hands and some muscle engagement at pretty much all speeds when making a turn. The SC, by comparison, was light, lively and felt like the agile steering everyone talks about.

Some relevant data:
Left Front: 27psi, 25-7/8" fender height from the ground
Right Front: 28psi, 25-15/16"
Left Rear: 33psi, 25-1/2"
Right Rear: 33psi, 25"

The car was aligned prior to purchase, however I'm not 100% sure if it happened. I don't have any real reason to doubt this, but it was a shop in an another state and I don't have any prior history with them. They did complete other requested work, like tires. I did not receive an alignment print out.

Last week I lubricated the U-joint in the smuggler's box with Kroil (thank you to Pelican search for this suggestion). I think it helped a little bit, but it's still heavy.

I'm running a 350mm Momo Competition steering wheel.

Thoughts?

[FA-18C]

Mike - experts will weigh in, but small wheel means less leverage for turning. It does not appear as if you are lowered in the front.

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by FA-18C

Mike - experts will weigh in, but small wheel means less leverage for turning. It does not appear as if you are lowered in the front.

I should also note that the SC had the same size steering wheel.

[blucille]

if lubricating the U joint helped, keep going. I did this on my (former) '83 that exhibited very heavy steering, I added some heat as well, kept going back with more Kroil and it loosened up nicely.

[PeteKz]

In a parking lot with wide tires and 350mm steering wheel, you do need to use some muscle. once rolling down the highway, it should be pretty light steering. One hand most of the time.

When you lift the front off the ground, does the steering wheel turn effortlessly? If so, then it's not in the steering, but some combination of tires, tire pressure, wheels, or suspension settings. Too much caster can do this, but the caster adjustments in a 911 are pretty limited, so I doubt that would be the cause. also look at the steering linkage--did anyone change something before you got the car?

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

In a parking lot with wide tires and 350mm steering wheel, you do need to use some muscle. once rolling down the highway, it should be pretty light steering. One hand most of the time.

When you lift the front off the ground, does the steering wheel turn effortlessly? If so, then it's not in the steering, but some combination of tires, tire pressure, wheels, or suspension settings. Too much caster can do this, but the caster adjustments in a 911 are pretty limited, so I doubt that would be the cause. also look at the steering linkage--did anyone change something before you got the car?

At parking lot speed it's a ton of effort. At driving speed it's slightly less, but still a lot of effort. Between mine and the SC it was night and day. The SC was like driving a modern power steering car compared to mine.

Two hands on the wheel for all turns.

I'll get it up in the air tomorrow and report back.

[jmd88]

Had a non-porsche car exhibit this heavy steering behavior. Turned out that the grease in the rack had nearly solidified. I'd pull the rack, clean and lube everything then put it all back together, see if this helps. You also get to replace any ripped rack boots in this process. Just mark the location of everything for easy re-alignment.

[Ctopher]

I have a 87 that has the same problem as you and roughly the same height as yours too. Heavy feel, in the garage, parking lot or highway. I used some HHS to spray the steering coupler along with using some brake cleaner on the steering bushing/bearings followed by some HHS. This made a noticeable improvement. I’ve yet to do the steering coupler near the steering wheel.
I would guess that it’s probably the bushing/bearing. This hasn’t brought the steering weight down to like other peoples car but a noticeable improvement. I suggest you try cleaning the bushing/bearing before greasing it.

CTopher

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

In a parking lot with wide tires and 350mm steering wheel, you do need to use some muscle. once rolling down the highway, it should be pretty light steering. One hand most of the time.

When you lift the front off the ground, does the steering wheel turn effortlessly? If so, then it's not in the steering, but some combination of tires, tire pressure, wheels, or suspension settings. Too much caster can do this, but the caster adjustments in a 911 are pretty limited, so I doubt that would be the cause. also look at the steering linkage--did anyone change something before you got the car?

Put the car in the air and the steering wheel turned effortlessly, so the rack is in good shape.

Tire pressure, size and wheels match the SC I'm comparing to, so those aren't likely the reason, which narrows it down to suspension set up Any other thoughts?

I realize that the SC and Carrera have some differences, but with most of the steering variables being the same or similar, should they exhibit similar handling characteristics?

[chucksmith]

I raised the front tire pressure about 4 lbs and found it helped a great deal on my 87 m491. I am aware that it is over the recommended tire pressure, however, I did not notice any adverse effects on handling

[Showdown]

At the risk of sounding obvious, ditch the 350mm wheel for something larger as previously mentioned. Even on my lightened 77 the 350mm was noticeably more difficult to turn than a 370mm which is a joy to drive with.

[PeteKz]

Ya got me stumped. The front suspensions on both the SC and Carrera are virtually the same. Obviously, something is different on your car, but without putting my own eyes on it, I don't have a good idea.

Edit: After thinking about it, here's a different approach: If your buddy is amenable, try swapping the front wheels and see if yours or his drives any differently.

[Ctopher]

Originally Posted by chucksmith

I raised the front tire pressure about 4 lbs and found it helped a great deal on my 87 m491. I am aware that it is over the recommended tire pressure, however, I did not notice any adverse effects on handling

This is a good point and something I forgot to add. I did add air to my fronts, I think I went to 32 before this last rallye and probably will do another 2psi. It was a noticeable difference, much easier, not full power steering feel but better than having to bulk up on shoulder muscles!

CTopher

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by chucksmith

I raised the front tire pressure about 4 lbs and found it helped a great deal on my 87 m491. I am aware that it is over the recommended tire pressure, however, I did not notice any adverse effects on handling

I added a few pounds this afternoon. Car had just been driven so pressure was up a little bit. Roughly 31-32lbs in each. It felt slightly better. Not as lively as my target, but at least a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Showdown

At the risk of sounding obvious, ditch the 350mm wheel for something larger as previously mentioned. Even on my lightened 77 the 350mm was noticeably more difficult to turn than a 370mm which is a joy to drive with.

Appreciate the suggestion. I’m tall and need the 350mm wheel to fit. Plus, the comparison car is running that size and the feel is light and precise.

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Ya got me stumped. The front suspensions on both the SC and Carrera are virtually the same. Obviously, something is different on your car, but without putting my own eyes on it, I don't have a good idea.

Edit: After thinking about it, here's a different approach: If your buddy is amenable, try swapping the front wheels and see if yours or his drives any differently.

Good idea. He’s a pretty amenable guy so I’ll see if he’s up for a swap.

I’m also going to see if my local Indy can at least verify that it’s properly aligned.

Thanks for the help so far!

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Ya got me stumped. The front suspensions on both the SC and Carrera are virtually the same. Obviously, something is different on your car, but without putting my own eyes on it, I don't have a good idea.

Edit: After thinking about it, here's a different approach: If your buddy is amenable, try swapping the front wheels and see if yours or his drives any differently.

Update: We swapped front wheels this morning and there's a difference. My '87 was lighter with his wheels on my car. Not quite as light as his '78, but definitely better.

Some notes:
My car is running summer tires while his runs all seasons.
Same size wheels/tires.

Weights:
Front left: 35.6lbs (37.4 on his car)
Front Right: 36.2lbs (36.2 on his car)

It still seems surprising that swapping wheels made this much of a difference.

[PeteKz]

It wasn't the wheels, but the tires. Sticky rubber tires will be harder to twist against the pavement than all season shoes. I know you said that you have the same size tires as your buddy, but the actual footprint of the tire on the ground could be wider with a sport tire than with an all season tire. Also check how much weight you have in the frunk. Are you carting around a hundred pounds of excess crap up front? And the Carrera does weigh more than the SC, but I don't know how much of that avoirdupois is on the front, versus back wheels. All the little stuff adds up. Porsche went to power steering on the 1990's cars for a reason.

Follow up questions:
Was his steering significantly heavier with your tires on his car?
what size front tires are you running?
did you lower your car below "Euro" ride hight?

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

It wasn't the wheels, but the tires. Sticky rubber tires will be harder to twist against the pavement than all season shoes. I know you said that you have the same size tires as your buddy, but the actual footprint of the tire on the ground could be wider with a sport tire than with an all season tire. Also check how much weight you have in the frunk. Are you carting around a hundred pounds of excess crap up front? And the Carrera does weigh more than the SC, but I don't know how much of that avoirdupois is on the front, versus back wheels. All the little stuff adds up. Porsche went to power steering on the 1990's cars for a reason.

Follow up questions:
Was his steering significantly heavier with your tires on his car?
what size front tires are you running?
did you lower your car below "Euro" ride hight?

Nothing in the frunk besides a tool kit and a few supplementary tools.

He said his steering was slightly heavier and also noted that if he hadn't known we switched wheels that he may not have noticed.

205/55/16 Conti's

It's not lowered below Euro spec.

Thank you again for your help!

[PeteKz]

As a reference point, I run 205/55-16 Michelin Sport Pilot AS3+ tires on all 4 corners, and I don't find the heavy to steer at all. However, my car is a 1973 so it's lighter.

Other than what you have already done, I can only suggest that you drive another Carrera with the same or similar sport tires and see if it feels significantly different than yours. Go drive the snot out of it.

[r_towle]

Is there a bushing/bearing in the steering column?
Might have been damaged when the steering wheel was swapped out?
That, and all u-joints in the steering column.
Then tie rods and ball joints.

I had the u-joints off on one car….weird steering.
By that I mean they were clocked differently than a car that felt fine.
I oriented the as the good car, solved that one.

I personally damaged the crush bushing on the column of a 914….very hard to turn.

With a new steering wheel and an adapter, I would suspect that first.

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by r_towle

Is there a bushing/bearing in the steering column?
Might have been damaged when the steering wheel was swapped out?
That, and all u-joints in the steering column.
Then tie rods and ball joints.

I had the u-joints off on one car….weird steering.
By that I mean they were clocked differently than a car that felt fine.
I oriented the as the good car, solved that one.

I personally damaged the crush bushing on the column of a 914….very hard to turn.

With a new steering wheel and an adapter, I would suspect that first.

Good call. There’s a little bit of play in the steering wheel. I’ll look there next.