My Story: Motor Oil | Brad Penn to LIQUI MOLY

[pmax]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

Liquid Moly's application finder seems to point to this stuff for air-cooled Porsche engines:

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_US/liqui/37/P000281

Yes it does.

Also interesting there's no mention of miscibility.

[Jeff Alton]

At our shop, we prefer using Liqui Moly products where ever they have an approval or recommendation.

For aircooled cars we use the 20w50 Touring HT as our go to fill. MoS2 is available as a separate additive for this oil, which we use. We have been using this for over 15 years with good results.

That said, we used to purchase BP by the pallet, but it was a tough sell up here after we covered shipping and brokerage costs... It worked well for us as well as well.

On a side note, we have a great close relationship with LM. Just got off a conversations with a NA director or LM. The 20W50 MoS2 is the Touring HT with MoS2 additive already in it. This is important to shops that buy bulk, as the 20W50 MoS2 is only available in 1L and 5L. As an end user doing your own services, I would just purchase the 20W50 MoS2 as part number 22070/22072. It is what we will sell to at the counter to our clients that do their own services and purchase the supplies directly from us.

Cheers

[fanaudical]

Good info, Jeff - Thanks!

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by AndrewCologne

Why should it be different now :-).

At the risk of wading into another oil thread....

10W60 didn't exist in 1980s... And the new full synthetic 10W60 oil will outperform anything else spec'd by the factory at that time.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

At our shop, we prefer using Liqui Moly products where ever they have an approval or recommendation.

For aircooled cars we use the 20w50 Touring HT as our go to fill. MoS2 is available as a separate additive for this oil, which we use. We have been using this for over 15 years with good results.

That said, we used to purchase BP by the pallet, but it was a tough sell up here after we covered shipping and brokerage costs... It worked well for us as well as well.

On a side note, we have a great close relationship with LM. Just got off a conversations with a NA director or LM. The 20W50 MoS2 is the Touring HT with MoS2 additive already in it. This is important to shops that buy bulk, as the 20W50 MoS2 is only available in 1L and 5L. As an end user doing your own services, I would just purchase the 20W50 MoS2 as part number 22070/22072. It is what we will sell to at the counter to our clients that do their own services and purchase the supplies directly from us.

Cheers

That is great info, thanks!

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

For aircooled cars we use the 20w50 Touring HT as our go to fill. MoS2 is available as a separate additive for this oil, which we use. We have been using this for over 15 years with good results.

Jeff, thanks for the tip. Where I live the 20-50 Touring HT seems to be hard to find. Liqui Moly's website has a few alternative recommendations for a 911SC:

20w50 classic (dino)
20w50 low friction with MsO2 (dino)
10w60 Race Tech (synthetic)

FWIW Porsche's current recommendation is their own 10w60 as far as I know.

Any experience with these?

[theiceman]

i love oil threads lol...

[canamfan]

Interesting LM would suggest the HT 20W50 "mineral" based oil is also suitable for "Turbo" engines, though I've been under the impression that you'd definitely would want a "full synthetic" to prevent coking? Am I also wrong to assume that Brad Penn, being a "semi synthetic" is just a little bit better in overall protection from high temp. absorption than just a basic "mineral" only oil? I've been using LM in my contemporary Audi & Mini & they are very happy on it, my 911 tho' BP seems to be the best, no leaks (no exaggeration, really, NO leaks even after spirited July/Aug. runs) & temps stay low all the time. VR1 was almost the same but in stop'n'go Toronto traffic the temps creeped slightly to the middle a couple of times. My Lotus Turbo Esprit seems happy on Redline 10W60, this/these asre what work for me for now) but I guess oil is ever so evolving?

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

Jeff, thanks for the tip. Where I live the 20-50 Touring HT seems to be hard to find. Liqui Moly's website has a few alternative recommendations for a 911SC:

20w50 classic (dino)
20w50 low friction with MsO2 (dino)
10w60 Race Tech (synthetic)

FWIW Porsche's current recommendation is their own 10w60 as far as I know.

Any experience with these?

Yes, the 10/60 was developed for BMW "M" engines.... We buy it bulk, and we have used it is some of our M96/97 Race engines.

The 20/50 Mos2 with the different packaging I assume is the same one talked about in this thread.

The "Classic" is also a suitable product for your needs.

Hope that helps!

Cheers

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by canamfan

Interesting LM would suggest the HT 20W50 "mineral" based oil is also suitable for "Turbo" engines, though I've been under the impression that you'd definitely would want a "full synthetic" to prevent coking? Am I also wrong to assume that Brad Penn, being a "semi synthetic" is just a little bit better in overall protection from high temp. absorption than just a basic "mineral" only oil? I've been using LM in my contemporary Audi & Mini & they are very happy on it, my 911 tho' BP seems to be the best, no leaks (no exaggeration, really, NO leaks even after spirited July/Aug. runs) & temps stay low all the time. VR1 was almost the same but in stop'n'go Toronto traffic the temps creeped slightly to the middle a couple of times. My Lotus Turbo Esprit seems happy on Redline 10W60, this/these asre what work for me for now) but I guess oil is ever so evolving?

We run the Touring, with MoS2 in the 930's at our shop. Never had an issue, even with some larger 3.5/big turbo builds..... Some shops around use synthetics in these motors with claimed good results as well, though they are not building the motors we are. But, we are concerned about more than the turbo portion of the engine....

There are plenty of good oils available, from many different brands- too much hype IMHO about what is best. I am just stating what we use and stand behind in our shop. If anyone has a fave oil to use, and not seeing any issues, then continue to use it. It is working for you!

The most important thing is maintaining the vehicle. Regular oil and filter changes... That is your best defense against wear.

Cheers

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

Jeff, thanks for the tip. Where I live the 20-50 Touring HT seems to be hard to find. Liqui Moly's website has a few alternative recommendations for a 911SC:

20w50 classic (dino)
20w50 low friction with MsO2 (dino)
10w60 Race Tech (synthetic)

FWIW Porsche's current recommendation is their own 10w60 as far as I know.

Any experience with these?

Concerning the 20W50 Classic vs. the Touring High Tech 20W50 I asked Liqui Moly for the reason and the differences as a 3rd party car parts dealer recommended the Classic instead of the Touring High Tech in their online oil guide for aircooled Porsches prior to 1990:

Dear customer,

Thank you for your inquiry and your interest in LIQUI MOLY products.

The information in our oil guide is always based on the requirements of the respective manufacturer.

According to our information, Porsche required an engine oil for the 911 SC that complied with API SE, which was a general standard from 1972-1979.

As the LIQUI MOLY Classic engine oil SAE 20W-50 HD from item no. 1128 (1 l) meets this API standard, it is also technically suitable. The ZDDP content is also not a problem here, as it is around 800 ppm.

Nevertheless, I recommend our LIQUI MOLY Touring High Tech 20W-50 from item no. 1250 (1 l), as it has a slightly more modern formulation.

Further they wrote later:

But one thing must not be forgotten, namely that today's oil is no longer comparable with the oils of the 1970s and 1980s. For example, the zinc content plays a minor role in current oils, even in the Classic, as wear protection is ensured by less harmful EP additives.
The term "mildly blended" is also not based purely on dirt-carrying properties. This is often about trying to avoid synthetic additives such as friction modifiers, as these are not compatible with all materials used at the time. As the Classic 20W-50 meets all of Porsche's requirements and does not have a very high zinc content, the classification is not really wrong.

Even if the Touring High Tech 20W-50 is now more suitable for older Porsche models, this cannot be included in the online oil guide for the time being, as it would then also appear in other vehicles with the API SE requirement, where it would not be optimal.
However, I will be happy to discuss this with my colleagues in charge to see if anything can change in the future.

With regard to the API classifications fulfilled by the Classic 20W-50, our current product information is always decisive. This oil therefore definitely fulfills the API SE required for the Porsche 911 SC.

[evan9eleven]

Wow, now that was going the extra mile. Thanks!

Would love to hear what that guy would have to say about their synthetic 10w60, dino vs. synthetic is always a lively discussion around here.

[HarryD]

Jeff, Interesting. At my specialty FLAPS I can get LM 20W-50 Touring HT but not 20w50 low friction with MsO2. For the time being, I am going to try Valvoline VR1 as it is at a regular FLAPS that is closer to me and is less expensive but still seems to also fit the bill.

[Jeff Alton]

Harry,

Yes, not many carry the 20W50 MoS2- not enough demand. One of our 2 main WD's carry it, the other does not, though I gather from speaking with the LM director, the other one will begin stocking it as well...

[PeteKz]

That is an excellent reply from LM. I suppose they have answered that question a few times...

[nut11]

Been using BP, now PG for 20 plus years. 20/50.
87 Carrera. 200K mile. Bought the car with 75K. Did a top end at 125 K with clutch replacement. At that time, my mechanic
showed me the cross hatching still visible on the cylinder walls.
The car burns about a quart every 4K.
Runs like a top.
It's a driver and I'm sticking with Penn Grade.
To each their own.