Rebuilt 2.7 Engine

[sean m]

All,
My car is a 77 911S. My dad and I have owned this car since 1982. Engine has never been rebuilt. Car has 247,000 on this original engine. Leaks oil from several areas but I capture all and recycle. I've tried to minimize but might be best to get rebuilt. Don't have the time (or garage) to track down every leak

I guess several topics.
1. Should I get my original 2.7 rebuilt (never been done)?
2. Should I look for a source to buy a rebuilt 2.7 and sell my current engine?
3. Who to contact for a "quality" rebuilt 2.7 engine?
4. Should I look to getting a "drop in" 3.0?

I know it's a little vague and tough questions. Not planning to sell the car...ever...so matching engine numbers not important. Plan on leaving to my son and his 3 boys to play with.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Major Dad]

I’d get the engine rebuilt if it was my car, in years to come you will want that matching numbers engine.

I rolled my 72S on the 2000 West Cork Rally. Bought a replacement bare shell for $1200 with the intention of swapping over. I didn’t have he money then to have the car repaired so it sat out in a yard for 12 years, and there was nobody in Ireland experienced or skilled enough to rebuild it. Somewhere in that twelve years I sold the replacement shell. In 2012 I brought the car to Ninemeister in the UK and he repaired it better than new , coming back to me in late 2014.

Along the way I had sold the original 2.4S engine and then bought it back from the same guy twenty five years later.

Had I gone ahead with my reshelling plan I wouldn’t have the magnificent original 911 I have now.

[Mixed76]

Might be cheaper to swap in a 3.0 and put the 2.7 on a shelf to keep for originality/ rebuild later. If you have a clean dry place to keep it.

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[fanaudical]

Long story, but I rebuilt a 2.7 for my '75 (really started with a 2.4 frankenmotor and built it to a mostly-stockish 2.7). It was expensive to do so and it took me a couple years to source all the parts. The advice I had from Grady Clay at the time was to shelve the motor and find a good 3.0L. Years later, I'm thinking I should have taken that advice - but I didn't start with a numbers-matching situation.

My thought for you: Go find that 3.0L motor. Get the transmission refreshed while you're at it. Put the 2.7L on the shelf and start looking at a rebuild at your leisure. And definitely refresh everything that passes through the tunnel when the engine is out. (And maybe look at refreshing the rear suspension bushings too - it's much easier with the engine and trans out of the car.)

[HarryD]

For me, he only two "real" options are to:
1-Rebuild or;
2-Pickle the motor (preserves numbers matching status) and get a good 3.0 or 3.2.

Costwise, I suspect, at the end of the day, the costs will be similar. If it was me, I'd rebuild.

[PeteKz]

I went to a 3.0 that I rebuilt to 3.2 long stroke using the crank and rods out of a turbo. The SC and Carrera engine cases and bottom ends are much stronger than the magnesium case engines. If longevity and no leaks are your objectives, go with a 3.0 or 3.2 and save the 2.7 for when your son/grandsons want to restore it or sell it with the original engine.

If you go to a 3.0 SC motor, you want a RoW engine (probably all you will find in Ireland/UK). They have larger head ports and CIS intake than the 80-83 US models. This is easiest to plug into your 77 CIS car. The 3.0 is about as bulletproof an engine as Porsche ever made. If you get a known running engine, you could just drop it in and go. However, if it has more than say 100K miles on it, now is a good time to do a valve refresh. Do not open the bottom end! If you feel like you have to, get a better engine to start with. You want to get the SC distributor and CDI box with it.

If you go to a 3.2 Carrera engine, you will need to decide what induction to use. Most people transplant the Motronic system with the 3.2 engine, but you need to install the electronics inside the passenger compartment like in the Carrera. The stock Carrera location for most of that stuff under the seats.

[Walter_Middie]

Plan on leaving to my son and his 3 boys to play with.

Sean,

Do your son and 3 boys a huge favor and rebuild the original engine rather than making a Frankenstein car that nobody can repair expect the long gone mechanic that did the engine transplant from a different car, a different year - what was changed? What parts from the old car did they use? What is still from 1977?

I see questions all the time on here from someone that bought a car with a replacement engine, and now they are trying to fix it. They don't know what they have or how it works. Keep the car original if you don't want to leave problems for someone to try and figure out.

[PeteKz]

With respect to Rex's concerns, the SC engines were all CIS fuel injection and CDI ignition, like the 1977 cars. If a tech can fix the 1977 fuel injection and ignition, he can fix the 78-83 systems. At this point, it's getting harder to find shops and techs who can fix the old systems, including carbs. You won't buy yourself any more or less trouble getting repairs on a 3.0 SC engine than a 1977 engine. The difference will be that the 3.0 engine will be tougher, more powerful, and less likely to need work.

[Billiam 911 2.8]

The collective wisdom here make great arguments for either direction. The only curveball would be if your boys want to help you rebuild the 2.7. BTW, Cork is beautiful.

[PeteKz]

Sorry, I gotta add a few more points. The SC engine will be less likely to leak too.

A 2.7 will cost much more to rebuild. Whether it has 247,000 miles or kilometers, you will ned to strip it down to the case and start there. Almost certainly, it will need case work, including installing case-savers for the studs. Likely "close and bore" to make the case straight, then everything rebuilt or new up to the cams and rockers.

If you get a running SC engine with less than, say, 200Kmi, I would not even split the case, unless it has oil leaks at the case seam. Even so, I would only inspect the bearings, and put them back in (except for the intermediate shaft bearings, which always seem to "show copper"). Otherwise, leave the bottom end alone. Check the pistons and clearances to the cylinders, and the ring end gaps. If they are not out of spec, put them back in as-is. Then refresh the valves/guides in the heads ($600 or so). SO far, you will have "rebuilt" the bottom up to the heads for under $1000, unless you find major problems. You will spend at least 10 times that getting to the same point with your 2.7 engine.

Last part of the rebuild will be new or the same cams, rebuilding the rockers and their shafts; timing chain, sprockets, and tensioners; and miscellaneous oil pipes and hoses and connections. These will cost about the same for either engine.

[sean m]

All,
Thanks for the responses. I understand from both sides.

I think I'll just bite the bullet and get the original 2.7 rebuilt to keep the car original. Hell, maybe it will be worth some money one day to them years down the road.

Anyone know a quality Porsche engine shop to rebuild a 2.7 in the Atlanta area?

Thanks again

[drola]

Originally Posted by sean m

All,
Thanks for the responses. I understand from both sides.

I think I'll just bite the bullet and get the original 2.7 rebuilt to keep the car original. Hell, maybe it will be worth some money one day to them years down the road.

Anyone know a quality Porsche engine shop to rebuild a 2.7 in the Atlanta area?

Thanks again

https://www.goldcrestmotors.com/

[targa80]

One of the things that I was told a very long time ago and have agreed with whole heartedly. If you own an original Classic matching numbers car then in the long haul keep it that way to retain all the value accrued with age. Granted this opinion mostly applies to vehicles that are desirable. If you own a Lada, yugo, pinto or a Vega probably the originality value would not be much. I have never bought a used car where its parts were not original.

[Mixed76]

Originally Posted by targa80

One of the things that I was told a very long time ago and have agreed with whole heartedly. If you own an original Classic matching numbers car then in the long haul keep it that way to retain all the value accrued with age. Granted this opinion mostly applies to vehicles that are desirable. If you own a Lada, yugo, pinto or a Vega probably the originality value would not be much. I have never bought a used car where its parts were not original.

It's not going to hurt a car's value if it has both a transplant engine and the original. Especially when the engine is so compatible with all the car's systems, assuming he went with a 3.0.

That said, a well built 2.7 can be as powerful as a stock 3.0 and slightly lighter. Wouldn't be original anymore though.

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[sean m]

Thanks Drola....sent them a note.

Anyone else know of a quality shop near Atlanta to rebuild a 2.7?