Help me plan to winterize my 911SC

[chrisbalich]

I'm starting a new job in a month and it's much, much closer to home and requires no highway travel to get to. As such, I don't really need a luxury SUV for my commute. I'm considering setting my SC up for 12-month (4-season) duty.

I know I'd need heat, snow tires on a second set of wheels, shore up any holes/air-leaks in the body, and probably fender liners all around. I also know these cars were 'regular cars' when they were new, so there's no inherent design flaw that precludes them from snowy/wintry use.

Salt/Rust is my primary concern. What am I overlooking?

The car in question:

[darrin]

when I drove mine year round, I ran Nokian WRG4 square in 205/55-16 size on 16x6f and 16x6r Fuchs during the winter cold/snow/ice season. Any time my car was exposed to salt (after the roads dried back out), I'd take it to a DIY car wash and powewash the #$^%$ out of the wheel wells, etc. (a home power washer would do the trick too). Mine was at standard ride height with factory headers/heat -- it was a great drive in the winter time, and at 180k miles, survived winter duty well -- https://www.nokiantires.com/snow-winter-tires/nokian-tyres-wr-g4/

[Otter74]

Fender liners would be a great idea, to prevent salty crap from setting up camp in all those crevices, especially in the back. I've got a set that I keep not getting around to installing yet, but it's on my project list for next year before I take it on its next big road trip.

Wash it a lot, maybe spray the underside with Fluid Film or similar, and make sure the oil you use is good for whatever your lowest expected overnight temps will be.

[EC900]

Nice to have dedicated snow tires if there’s a sudden snow storm and roads aren’t plowed, but I managed to get along well decades ago with street tires on a 68 VW 311.
For me these days, I check the forecast each drive day - I won’t willingly subject my 911 to water of any kind, so winter drives are on dry days with no puddling salt water along the curbside. Last thing I want is to hand wash a car (in 20° winter) and try to dry it out before garaging, so a leaf blower or compressor would be needed.
Oh, its the low-temp melting additives the municipality puts on the salt, and some use brine that’s even worse than rock salt. Plus if the rock salt is fresh, the guy in front is slinging those shards at your car.

[911 Rod]

Don't do it. The salt will get in places that you don't even know exist.
Sure these cars were made for the winter, but not salt. When the salt gets under your undercoating it will eat away at it without you knowing. Not to mention all the fasteners will rust.
It's an old car and deserves to be taken car of in it's golden years.

[shamrok]

3rd year of 4-season duty here. She's no worse for wear, tho some of the suspension fasteners will probably get replaced next summer. We don't really get snow, but it's been in the 20s for a couple weeks now and she's been doing fine.

Fresh air to the windshield is pretty critical, they fog quick. Backdated heat and heated seat pad is plenty to keep warm. I haven't had windshield sprayers in years and this is the first winter where I kinda wish I did, but I just carry a bottle of Stoners glass cleaner with some isopropyl alcohol mixed in, give it a squirt when needed.

[Schulisco]

Lokari provides inner wings:
https://www.lokari.de/en/p/inner-wings-front-porsche-911-ii-g-930-964-turbo-yoc-73-94
https://www.lokari.de/en/p/inner-wings-rear-porsche-911-ii-g-930-964-turbo-yoc-73-94

I also wouldn't use the 911 in the salt. For the costs necessary to winterize the car I would purchase a cheap ride for winter time. On the other hand a Porsche will do the winter job anyway.

Thomas

[ADDvanced]

I..... wouldn't. Look I want to drive mine super bad in winter, it sounds awesome, but salt is so corrosive and they use so much of it. I'd just buy a beater Honda for like 2-3k, use it, and sell it when you're done. I'm determined to kill my $3000 insight... it get 52mpg with snow tires, has an aluminum chassis (built next to the NSX) the gauges and steering wheel are almost like an S2000. it is slow as balls? Yes. Will it rust out? Not in our lifetimes.

Salty moisture will get into every pinch weld of your car, every crease, and every fastener will start to corrode at an accelerated rate. It would ruin your car really, really, really quick imho.

Oh, and if you buy the right ****box honda, you can use it and after you use it, it's worth the same as you paid for it. Don't put your car in salt. It's not worth the damage.

[berndtj]

Not everywhere salts in the winter. Here in the PNW when it snows everything just shuts down. I just drove 90 miles there and back in at or below freezing. The cold shouldn’t be an issue.

That said, I won’t drive it in the snow, even without the salt to worry about. I have a truck for that. It’s just not worth it. It’s too easy to get in an accident (doesn’t matter whose fault), and I certainly don’t want to deal with the aftermath of salt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rwest]

Besides the salt damage, you can get scratches on the windshield from scraping off ice and snow, rims can corrode etc.

Your car also looks very low to go through any real amount of snow without hanging up.

Just a real great way to make your 911 worse a lot less.

[EC900]

I forgot about salt & aluminum Fuchs. Even plated parts on my motorcycle engine case get a weird coating of corrosion from atmospheric airborne salts floating around in my old, drafty, uninsulated garage.
Yes, that lowered 911 will hang up on high snow probably easier than say a standard FWD auto. Traction may be better but no match if there’s a huge snowfall and track ruts that freeze solid. Seen a guy struggling with a Corvette in slush snow…wrong tires, RWD, 5-10 mph on the tollway half the speed of traffic and still fish tailing.
And even with undercoats, salts are going to eventually eat thru any protective coating, strip oils from cables, moisture will find a way to seep into all unseen crevices. Brine solutions don’t wash away as easy as rock salts.
Remember to clean out the trunk seal channels as this is a vulnerable catch for not only salts but leaves/twigs and dirt year around.
Good luck.

[creaturecat]

salt never sleeps. neither does rust.
Crazy Horse told me so.

[PeteKz]

Ditto that. You're in the "rust belt." If you want to preserve it, park it. BTDT.

[RSTarga]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

I'm starting a new job in a month and it's much, much closer to home and requires no highway travel to get to. As such, I don't really need a luxury SUV for my commute. I'm considering setting my SC up for 12-month (4-season) duty.

I know I'd need heat, snow tires on a second set of wheels, shore up any holes/air-leaks in the body, and probably fender liners all around. I also know these cars were 'regular cars' when they were new, so there's no inherent design flaw that precludes them from snowy/wintry use.

Salt/Rust is my primary concern. What am I overlooking?

The car in question:

That car is slammed! Do you have any suspension movement?

[dw1]

It sounds to me like you were choosing between your 911 (lowered and with limited/no protection from winter crud) and a luxury SUV.

My strong suggestion is to park the 911 when the weather is cruddy and instead use a beater for the winter commute. Virtually any late-model car (even small econoboxes) will be fine in all but the deepest snow if it has a good set of snow tires.

Here in the northeast, I have easily driven by SUV's that skidded off the road because I had good dedicated winter tires on a front wheel drive car and they had well-worn all-season tires. It seems people get WAY to confident in their 4 wheel drive capabilities not realizing their vehicle inertia (weight) and lack of traction can be a problem.

Btw, have you ever driven a VW beetle (the old ones) in snow? Some of us are old enough to have done so and I suspect your 911 may have the same issue - lots of traction on the rear wheels but little directional control due to lack of front traction. Quite a hoot on an empty road or parking lot, but in traffic not so much.

[shoooo32]

I'd dump the Q5 and score a winter beater. A Miata on blizzaks would be more fun than your 911 and completely guilt free. Maybe a well used 996?!? It works for Keenan...

[manbridge 74]

We had a customer waiting at a turn signal. Several cars wrecked in the icy intersection and collected his 911. Basically totaled it. Even when insured it’s a lot of hassle to get your modified-just-how-you-like-it 911 back in good shape.

[dw1]

Originally Posted by shoooo32

I'd dump the Q5 and score a winter beater. A Miata on blizzaks would be more fun than your 911 and completely guilt free. Maybe a well used 996?!? It works for Keenan...

A friend has an older GTI (with winter-use studless ice & snow tires) in addition to the family SUV and his 911. I can tell you from first-hand experience that the GTI is great in the snow and lots of fun in dry conditions (with the summer tires) as well.

Fyi, the GTI has a bit better ground clearance than most hot hatches and that is a good thing. During the winter, the GTI's good heater, defroster/defogger, wipers and traction control are helpful things as well - things that may not work so well in your 911.

[chrisbalich]

Thank you all for your comments and concerns. I'll touch on a few.

Originally Posted by shamrok

3rd year of 4-season duty here. She's no worse for wear, tho some of the suspension fasteners will probably get replaced next summer. We don't really get snow, but it's been in the 20s for a couple weeks now and she's been doing fine.

Fresh air to the windshield is pretty critical, they fog quick. Backdated heat and heated seat pad is plenty to keep warm. I haven't had windshield sprayers in years and this is the first winter where I kinda wish I did, but I just carry a bottle of Stoners glass cleaner with some isopropyl alcohol mixed in, give it a squirt when needed.

I have functional wipers and squirters and an upgraded defrosting plan is going into effect this winter. I also have heated seats.
But you make good points for sure.

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

I..... wouldn't. Look I want to drive mine super bad in winter, it sounds awesome, but salt is so corrosive and they use so much of it. I'd just buy a beater Honda for like 2-3k, use it, and sell it when you're done. I'm determined to kill my $3000 insight... it get 52mpg with snow tires, has an aluminum chassis (built next to the NSX) the gauges and steering wheel are almost like an S2000. it is slow as balls? Yes. Will it rust out? Not in our lifetimes.

Salty moisture will get into every pinch weld of your car, every crease, and every fastener will start to corrode at an accelerated rate. It would ruin your car really, really, really quick imho.

Oh, and if you buy the right ****box honda, you can use it and after you use it, it's worth the same as you paid for it. Don't put your car in salt. It's not worth the damage.

Under only circumstances dire enough for me to need to sell the 911 would I buy a Honda.
I get your point. But I loathe FWD, and gutless Hondas moreso.

Originally Posted by EC900

...strip oils from cables...
Remember to clean out the trunk seal channels as this is a vulnerable catch for not only salts but leaves/twigs and dirt year around.
Good luck.

These are two things I hadn't considered. Excellent points.

Originally Posted by RSTarga

That car is slammed! Do you have any suspension movement?

Yes.
Why does everyone assume I just roll around on the bump stops?
It's not terribly difficult to raise the spindles and restore up-travel. (I did mine myself.)
Since that picture, I've also re-shaped the front arches to make more room so I can run a bigger tire without raising the car.

Originally Posted by dw1

It sounds to me like you were choosing between your 911 (lowered and with limited/no protection from winter crud) and a luxury SUV.

My strong suggestion is to park the 911 when the weather is cruddy and instead use a beater for the winter commute. Virtually any late-model car (even small econoboxes) will be fine in all but the deepest snow if it has a good set of snow tires.

Here in the northeast, I have easily driven by SUV's that skidded off the road because I had good dedicated winter tires on a front wheel drive car and they had well-worn all-season tires. It seems people get WAY to confident in their 4 wheel drive capabilities not realizing their vehicle inertia (weight) and lack of traction can be a problem.

Btw, have you ever driven a VW beetle (the old ones) in snow? Some of us are old enough to have done so and I suspect your 911 may have the same issue - lots of traction on the rear wheels but little directional control due to lack of front traction. Quite a hoot on an empty road or parking lot, but in traffic not so much.

I already have the SUV. (Audi Q5 with 3.0 supercharged)
I've driven everything from GTIs, my old turbo R32, an E36M3, a 4Runner, a Tundra, an a4, an a3, to your aptly mentioned beetle with success. (The beetle was a 67.)
It's been my experience that preparedness and awareness are all that are required for success on wintry roads. It's worth mentioning that all the VWs and especially the e36M were markedly lower than the 911. Blizzaks or Hakkapelitas and a LSD and you're good to go. All the other best practices of winter driving apply.
I will say driving back from Cleveland in a proper blizzard a few years ago was much better in the T4R than if I'd been in the M3. But I would have made it nonetheless.

Originally Posted by shoooo32

I'd dump the Q5 and score a winter beater. A Miata on blizzaks would be more fun than your 911 and completely guilt free. Maybe a well used 996?!? It works for Keenan...

Now that is some forward thinking.
You really should clear your schedule and come hang NY weekend. Keenan and Matt and Corey are all coming over.

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

We had a customer waiting at a turn signal. Several cars wrecked in the icy intersection and collected his 911. Basically totaled it. Even when insured it’s a lot of hassle to get your modified-just-how-you-like-it 911 back in good shape.

This is nightmare fuel. I will say I stare in my mirrors when I'm at stoplights for this exact reason. I do it whether it's sunny and 80 or snowing and 15.

Originally Posted by dw1

A friend has an older GTI (with winter-use studless ice & snow tires) in addition to the family SUV and his 911. I can tell you from first-hand experience that the GTI is great in the snow and lots of fun in dry conditions (with the summer tires) as well.

Fyi, the GTI has a bit better ground clearance than most hot hatches and that is a good thing. During the winter, the GTI's good heater, defroster/defogger, wipers and traction control are helpful things as well - things that may not work so well in your 911.

There are very few cars I'll ever own that will have good ground clearance. Just not my thing.
If you liked the GTI, try an R. (or an A3 which is basically a sedan version of an R)


Thanks again, everyone. The Q got me to work handily this AM in the cold...and markedly quieter than my 911.
I've got a lot of work yet to do before the 911 sees the road again under any weather condition. But I'll be bearing in mind all your suggestions.

[mb911]

I had to drive my restored turbo for a couple days in the winter about 15 years ago. After I was done I washed the undercarriage and even though I cleaned it thoroughly the fasteners developed some corrosion on them in short order. We do get a good amount of salt here. In no way would suggest it on a car like yours. They don’t make them anymore.