What to do? 1970 911T not run since 1997

[hotdogwater]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

You said "she sounds like she wants to start." What does that mean? Is it firing on some cylinders?

Yea, exactly that, some cylinders firing and making a bit of smoke and a few revs that weren't the starter turning it but I knew the timing was off since the dizzy moved when I was cranking engine. Trying to get the close enough timing to get it started but ran into some issues.. see below

Also - the green oil pressure light would go off after some cranking of the motor. I assume that is working as designed? The lite comes on with the key and goes off after some revolutions of the motor.

- interior -
The paint is just an epoxy primer so I could get it moved. I installed a RSR carpet kit and did the interior upholstery work a while back but the whole car needs a paint job and some attn to the body. Was gonna just rat rod it around while I do the body work and or sell it as is needing paint. I saw some rust (or really rust colored primer) and was worried so I stripped the interior down to metal. It's not original (tho I have every part I pulled off the car) so not concerned about trying to attract the concourse buyers when I go to sell. The bumpers are flat black at the moment so don't match the body and I have welded up all the holes from the trim so it's not gonna attract the "original" crowd. Hopefully it won't make anyone mad, most of it is what I would call "what owners of the time might have done to modify/hotrod up their 911T" updates. It can all be undone tho and like I said I have all the parts that came off.

-gear oil -
The Kendall gear oil was bought for this car, just a while ago. Might just get some swepco, ran that in my race car transaxle and it was solid. Kendall says it's GL-5 for hypoid gear sets. This car has a 915 trans swapped for the sportmatic sometime before I got it. Hopefully it's still in good shape. I will order some swepco and if it takes longer than the dizzy rebuild maybe use the kendall stuff for the time to get her started or like mentioned, dip my finger and if it's wet then address it later.

- ignition woes-
I pulled the #1 cylinder plug/set crank pully to TDC mark on fan. Pulled dizzy to check points and reposition to verify I have it in correctly. The dizzy is very hard to turn. Can turn it but def gummed up. Watched a bunch of Klassik ATS videos on the Marelli rebuild but not sure If I should just skip that and install something like a 123 distributor VS me rebuilding my Marelli. I had trouble finding parts when I found a new cap and rotor a few years back but apparently the PK guys sell a kit with everything to rebuild it. Not OEM but looks like it could make it work again. I ran pertronix stuff in a 4cyl VWorsche engine and didn't have any issues but seems those are not so solid anymore or not for 6cyl engines.

Any feedback on rebuilt/homebuilt Marelli vs 123 Distributors?

I'm trying to free up the Marelli now and see if I can continue with trying to start it or need to rebuild this before continuing. Kurt from Klassik ATS says danger of this bound up dizzy is brass/bronze gear in engine wears fast. I can turn it but it takes some force, not free spinning like it should be. So maybe I get it addressed before continuing.

[PeteKz]

Good. Take the dizzy out and spray inside with WD-40 or some other thin oil or spray. Work the shaft until it loosens up. Then put a few drops of ATF or engine oil down in the shaft/body area and on the centrifugal weights and pivots. Then put it back in. Set it somewhere "in the middle." Remove the spark plugs and clean them. My guess is they are wet and dirty from excess fuel and the Marvel oil. If you have a propane torch, heat them up to burn off any wetness or carbon. Then put them back it.

Give it a shot of starting spray and see if it fires up.

[rowingone]

I ended up going with the 123 ignition distributor as opposed to rebuilding the Marelli my project car came with. The shaft was worn and had too much play and I was told that this Marelli could not have new shaft shims/bearings installed. I thought about going with a rebuilt Bosch but it was cheaper to go with the 123 and its new so .. I'm happy with my choice. I also eliminated the questionable CDI my car came with as the 123 doesn't require it.

[hotdogwater]

Updates....

Well I am waiting on some parts to show up and give this another try. I ordered a 123 distributor and a new coil to match, a new battery and changed the gear oil out for new swepco 201. The oil smelled pretty bad and magnetic drain plug had a reasonable amount of particles on it, but the most concerning is this washer that was attached to the plug. The level was pretty low but nothing shinny in the drain pan.

Still planning on trying to start it again this weekend once I get the new dizzy and will see if the trans moves the car at all/what gears work or not.

Anyone have an idea what this may wave washer may have come from inside the transaxle?

[HarryD]

Confused.

How does a 123 Dizzy eliminate the CDI Unit? If you use it plus a standard coil, you have a classic Kettering ignition system that has replaced the points with an electronic switch. The CDI provides a hotter spark that cannot be duplicated with a Kettering ignition, especially at higher rpms.

[PeteKz]

Harry, there are several options with the 123 dizzy. The dizzy for early cars with 3-pin CDI boxes will work directly with a coil like a Kettering setup. It eliminates the need for a CDI box. You can also use it simply as the trigger to a CDI box, either Bosch or MSD.

BTW, the 3.2 Carrera Motronic also switches the coil like a Kettering. So do coil-on-plug ignitions (pretty much all newer cars). It's debatable whether CDI or a transistor switched system works better. It depends on the application and multiple factors.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by hotdogwater

-gear oil -
The Kendall gear oil was bought for this car, just a while ago. Might just get some swepco, ran that in my race car transaxle and it was solid. Kendall says it's GL-5 for hypoid gear sets. This car has a 915 trans swapped for the sportmatic sometime before I got it. Hopefully it's still in good shape. I will order some swepco and if it takes longer than the dizzy rebuild maybe use the kendall stuff for the time to get her started or like mentioned, dip my finger and if it's wet then address it later.

I've been running Kendall GL-5 hypoid in my 915 box for 10 years, and it's the only one I will use. In my case I have an LSD, so I use the version with the additive, but it's the same oil otherwise. I'd run that oil and not worry more about it.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Harry, there are several options with the 123 dizzy. The dizzy for early cars with 3-pin CDI boxes will work directly with a coil like a Kettering setup. It eliminates the need for a CDI box. You can also use it simply as the trigger to a CDI box, either Bosch or MSD.

BTW, the 3.2 Carrera Motronic also switches the coil like a Kettering. So do coil-on-plug ignitions (pretty much all newer cars). It's debatable whether CDI or a transistor switched system works better. It depends on the application and multiple factors.

It is my understanding that Porsche went to CDI so they were able to get a hot, reliable spark at high rpm’s. The issue with Kettering is the time to build a full charge in coil prior to discharge. CDI, MSD and the like build the power faster and then the transformer (mistakenly called a coil) boost the power another 100x. In Kettering systems the coil has a much higher ratio.

Some reading:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delco_ignition_system

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition

[hotdogwater]

IT RUNS!!! I was able to get my (sat for 25+ years) 911 running. Got a hand from buddy who races this engine in his 914 and we got her running. The smoke coming out (marvel oil in cylinders + all the gunk) was incredible. The whole garage was full and me managed to flood my house with the weirdest old burnt oil smell.

After rolling it out of the garage I got to drive it up and down the street in the snow. The CV's / suspension sounded crunchy, the carbs are popping and some major tuning needs to be done but it ran thru the gears, 1st, 2nd and reverse at least.

Ran it again, still very hard to start but she ran for a bit with little smoke but when I turned a corner with some speed the smoke started coming out thicker. I wonder if I have a stuck valve.

I'm ordering a feeler gauge from our host today and will try to check the valves in next few days, then will need to see If I can get the carbs synced up and the throttle bar set properly.

I have just days left in the school year to drop my kid off at school, she is taking finals now but I think I can make it.

[wildthing]

Congrats on the milestone. Almost there!

[PeteKz]

Congrats! Pour a bottle of Chevron Techron Concentrate into the tank and drive it. The smoke should burn out. It could also be in your heat exchangers, which will take awhile to burn out.